New rule about who needs an FFL to sell gun(s): UPDATE: Rule published for comment on Fed Register

[GunnyGene]

I've cleared this with Dave, with the proviso that y'all don't make this political. The links are provided for information only, and discussion of the facts as presented in the Proposed Rule. The rule is not available yet on Regulations.gov, but should be available for public comment within the next few days.

We've been waiting for this to drop. It has.
Posted on Whitehouse Briefing Room

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... ous-hands/

Ammoland article, which includes a copy of the ATF Proposed Rule (also can be downloaded as a pdf). The rule itself is 107 pages long and contains a great many details concerning the ability of non-FFL holders to conduct ( or offer for sale), private sales whether on-line or face to face. Watch out for that "presumed" word scattered around in the text of the Rule. It ain't your friend.

The basic objective is to implement, as much as legally possible, a National Universal Background Check system.

https://www.ammoland.com/2023/08/bidens ... z8C4ChH2Ub

[Mags]

Fixed Whitehouse link
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... ous-hands/

[GunnyGene]

Fixed Whitehouse link
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... ous-hands/

Thanks for WH fix. Sometimes copy/paste doesn't work. I'll edit the op.

[John E Davies]

That shoe already dropped here, heavily, in Washington State a few months ago, and already a number of our smaller FFLs are shutting down because they cannot sell their inventories of “assault weapons”. For most FFLs that is about 75% of their inventory, for smaller specialized ones it is much closer to 100%. Most consumers are not looking for Henry’s… ;(

Did you know that your 10/22 with threaded barrel is an Evil Black Rifle? I can no longer sell mine unless I cut off the threads first. And the only way my daughter can get it is when I die. I am transitioning away from firearms into PCP airguns, but they too will be targets for insane laws in a few years, when legislators are done with firearms and find out some .50 cal PCPs have 800 ft pounds energy, and there are threaded barrels and cheap moderators for all of them.

John Davies
Spokane W#

[GunnyGene]

That shoe already dropped here, heavily, in Washington State a few months ago, and already a number of our smaller FFLs are shutting down because they cannot sell their inventories of “assault weapons”. For most FFLs that is about 75% of their inventory, for smaller specialized ones it is much closer to 100%. Most consumers are not looking for Henry’s… ;(

Did you know that your 10/22 with threaded barrel is an Evil Black Rifle? I can no longer sell mine unless I cut off the threads first. And the only way my daughter can get it is when I die. I am transitioning away from firearms into PCP airguns, but they too will be targets for insane laws in a few years, when legislators are done with firearms and find out some .50 cal PCPs have 800 ft pounds energy, and there are threaded barrels and cheap moderators for all of them.

John Davies
Spokane W#

The major difference with the new ATF proposed rule and State level rules like WA, is that it applies to all firearms (including imports and privately made), not just selected evil ones, and to all private sales (with only a couple minor exceptions). It's worth taking a half hour of your time to read it carefully before you send in a comment about it when it's posted on Regulations.gov. I'm keeping an eye on that and will post the link when available.

[Vaquero]

That shoe already dropped here, heavily, in Washington State a few months ago, and already a number of our smaller FFLs are shutting down because they cannot sell their inventories of “assault weapons”. For most FFLs that is about 75% of their inventory, for smaller specialized ones it is much closer to 100%. Most consumers are not looking for Henry’s… ;(

Did you know that your 10/22 with threaded barrel is an Evil Black Rifle? I can no longer sell mine unless I cut off the threads first. And the only way my daughter can get it is when I die. I am transitioning away from firearms into PCP airguns, but they too will be targets for insane laws in a few years, when legislators are done with firearms and find out some .50 cal PCPs have 800 ft pounds energy, and there are threaded barrels and cheap moderators for all of them.

John Davies
Spokane W#

“assault weapons”. MY ASS
THEY ARE NOT ASSAULT WEAPONS.
They are merely semi-auto firearms. You can be assaulted with a lot of things. I hate when they are referred to as such.
Assault is an "action" and not an adjective.
You would think that the so-called educated people, would know better.

RP

[Luv the lever]

This IS political. If we don’t address it we will all pay.

[daytime dave]

Since we don't allow political discussion, I let Gene present this as informatin for everyone. I was unaware of it. Now I know.

Be informed all. I thank everyone for keeping political discussion out.

[Hatchdog]

As a resident of Washington State where many of the above laws are already in place I fear for the rest of the nation.

[Vaquero]

"The Biden administration has empowered the ATF to shut down gun stores for small clerical errors. President Joe Biden claims the new zero-tolerance policy only affects “rogue gun dealers,” but in practice, many more small gun stores are being targeted. FFL revocations are up between 350% and 500%, rising to a 17-year high. "

A Florida-based Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Industry Operations Inspector (IOI) seized a federal firearms licensee’s (FFL) completed ATF Form 4473s and bound book to take off-site to make copies violating federal law. The IOI would return the documents a week later. Last week, Kiloton Tactical joined a coalition of FFLs led by Eric Blandford of the Iraqveteran8888 YouTube channel and vowed to sue the ATF over the Biden Administration’s zero-tolerance policy for FFLs. The lawsuit has now been filed with the illegal actions of the IOI front and center in the complaint. According to 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(1)(A), FFLs must maintain records such as a bound book and copies of the ATF Form 4473, which Kiloton Tactical did maintain. During an inspection, an IOI is able to look over records for policy violations but does not have the authority to inspect the documents off-site. This action is expressly prohibited by 27 CFR § 478.23(cd). The statute reads: “The inspections and examinations provided by this section do not authorize an ATF officer to seize any records or documents other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation of law. If an ATF officer seizes such records or documents, copies shall be provided to the licensee within a reasonable time.”...- John Crump

Read more: ATF Inspector Seizes Gun Store Customer Records Without A Warrant


RP

[DsGrouse]

Not the same rule, but one that is of concern for us reloaders. I skipped forward past all the fluff to where he begins actually getting to the bloody point. I have no idea why they bury the lead all the fricken time.

https://youtu.be/anS4LBS5IcU?si=TqGJYwsim12dsQ6a&t=157

link to the rule.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/ATF-2023-0001-0001

[GunnyGene]

The official Proposed Rule is now open for comment on the Federal Register. If you wish to comment, be sure you are commenting on the right document:
Comment on FR Doc # 2023-18075

https://www.regulations.gov/search?agen ... 2023-09-08

Be sure to read the many ways that ATF will presume you are in the business. Here's one, which indicates some collusion with the IRS:

(

2) spends more money or its equivalent on purchases of firearms for the purpose of resale than the person's reported taxable gross income during the applicable period of time; 

[BigAl52]

The end result here is to eventually take everything away. They will find a way to do it by combining laws with other laws. There is only one way it isnt going to happen and I dont see that taking place