The Henry .44 Magnum - Rifle or Pistol Powder ?

[DoctorBill]

Got to thinking about reloading some more .44 Magnums for my Henry Big Boy.

the .44 Magnum is a pistol cartridge and so employs fast burning Pistol Powder
in it's loads.

Has anyone got any reloading data for slower burning Rifle Powders ?
I don't mean to open a big can of worms by asking this question.....

But, why subject the Henry's Chamber and the cartridge Brass to higher pressures from
fast burning powders when firing them in a rifle with a long barrel ?

I loaded up some .44 Magnums with 2400 and 4227 and they shot fine.

BUT - if the velocity coming out the barrel is accomplished with quick High Pressure
or slower, lower pressure, who's to care ?

It just seems to make good sense to shoot lower pressure loads in the Henry RIFLE
with rifle propellant than high pressure pistol propellants just because the round
was originally made for pistols. No ?

I realize that loading up a Pistol Round for rifle shooting is fine except if someone
grabs those rounds and shoves them in a revolver....but I suppose the pistols shooter
would wonder why all the flame coming out the barrel would be the only consequence.

Any thoughts ? Does anyone know of slower burning rifle powder loads for the .44 Magnum ?

DoctorBill

[JEBar]

Nosler's Vol 6 calls for 23.8 grains of W296 or H110 with 240 grain Nosler JHP bullets for both 44mag pistol and rifle cartridges .... that is the load we have used since the 80's .... it works well for us in both our Ruger Redhawk and Henry

[Travlin]

One of the first loads worked out by Mr. 44 Elmer Keith was one that used 2400 powder . He used it in his Smith 29.

[adirondack]

I load for rifles only. My Henry BBS .44mag. shoots very well with IMR 4227, starline brass and Hornady 240 hp xtp bullets(.430 dia), WLP primers. It also shows a very low SD on the chronograph. H110 shows greater velocity but not as accurate in my rifle. I have also tried Montana Gold 240 JSP (.429 dia) with acceptable but not equal accuracy.

[DoctorBill]

So it looks like no one has ever tried a slow burning rifle propellant in .44 Magnum
cartridges for shooting in rifles.

Something like Reloader 12 or 15, IMR 3031, IMR 4064 just to mention a few I have
in my stock.

Something that will continue burning as the bullet travels down the barrel.

Would not those powders give lower instantaneous pressures in the chamber ?

I wish some of the powder manufacturers would try out the slower burning propellants
with pressure metering in their test beds where it could be done safely.

Why do that ?! Curiosity. Knowledge. Something new and different.....
There might actually be a better way.

DoctorBill

[White Squirrel]

I also have a handgun in the same caliber as all of the rifles I reload for and I guess I am just too lazy to reload two separate formulas. I simply reload what will shoot in the handguns and then use the same rounds in the rifles.

[clovishound]

I'm certainly no expert, but case capacity may be the reason no one gives data for this. There just may not be enough room in the case to contain enough rifle powder to give adequate velocity. I know that loading for .357 magnum with 4227, I am running out of room by the time I start approaching a max load. I would imagine it would take even more slower rifle powder to achieve the velocities the 4227 gives. A 30-30 case uses roughly the same weight bullet as .357, but the case is substantially larger. The 30-30 calls for rifle powders, .357 uses pistol. MV is somewhat higher in 30-30, but not dramatically so.

[CT_Shooter]

I also have a handgun in the same caliber as all of the rifles I reload for and I guess I am just too lazy to reload two separate formulas. I simply reload what will shoot in the handguns and then use the same rounds in the rifles.

That's my strategy, too. The rifle will significantly boost the fps of the revolver loads, so the revolver is the lowest common denominator; but I don't approach maximum loads on it, either. I'm just above starting loads for the revolver.

[clovishound]

I load separate loads for my revolver and rifle. I do this mainly because I prefer to shoot .357 in the rifle, and can only shoot .38s in the revolver.

[JEBar]

I also have a handgun in the same caliber as all of the rifles I reload for and I guess I am just too lazy to reload two separate formulas. I simply reload what will shoot in the handguns and then use the same rounds in the rifles.

that has been my approach as well .... for hunting loads, because I use Nosler 240 gr JHP's, I went to the Nosler manual and found the max load that they recommended as being the most accurate .... in that first manual for their max load they recommended 23.8 grs of W296 with large pistol primers .... loaded some and our Redhawk really liked them, never have loaded anything else .... over the last few decades (literally) it has served us well .... when we bought our Henry we ran some through it and again, they worked well .... went the same route with practice loads, found the mix our Redhawk likes and are using them in our Henry

[DoctorBill]

I find clovishound's comment most interesting -
"case capacity may be the reason no one gives data for this.
There just may not be enough room in the case to contain enough rifle powder to
give adequate velocity."

I was under the impression that grain for grain, these various propellants produce about
the same volumes of hot gas when ignited. Thus 20 grains of 4227 should produce about
the same amount of gas as 20 grains of, say reloader 15 (±10%) - just faster (faster burn rate).


http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/webproj/212 ... eChart.jpg

I have been known to be full of Horse Pucky, but doesn't it seem reasonable that the above
should be true ?

I would like to try using something like Reloader 15 by starting with a smaller load, but then
there is that thing about not leaving any empty space in a shell by loading lower charges.

I never understood why that is dangerous. The use of fillers is supposed to negate
such dangers - maybe that approach would work. I have some "Puff-Lon" just for that and
the case is a straight walled case, so no bottle-neck to cause problems.....

Hmmmm..........

DoctorBill

[clovishound]

Well, look at this data.

Max load for a 158 grain XTP (jacketed HP) in .357 magnum

H4227 16.0 grains 42600 cup

Titegroup 6.1 grains 41900 cup

I tried loading the 4227 load and stopped at 15.5 as this was the point where the powder fill line intersected with where the base of the bullet would be when fully seated to the canelure.

Needless to say the 6.1 Titegroup load had tons of room in the .357 case.

It isn't a straight line correlation, but all the low volume loads listed on Hogdgon's site are faster pistol powders. All the high volume loads are at the slow end of the spectrum.

Again, I'm not saying this is the definitive explanation, just offering it as a possibility.

[Squatch]

The 44 is a pistol round. The specs are the same for pistol or rifle. Some pistol powders are still pushing at the end of a rifle barrel some are not. I think if you look at the chrono data I posted up for factory 44 ammo a while back you will see this. if the pistol (10.5" barrel in my case) and the rifle velocities are close Then the powder used itself up in both guns. If the rifle is showing much faster than the powder was still burning all the way down the barrel in the rifle.
http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=318

Several pistol powders are still burning judging from the muzzle flash from my rifle. So my point is rifle powder may not get you much. Not only that but even some pistol powders can get weird if loaded either above or below load specs. I expect rifle powders would be more so. Both w296 and H110 come to mind.

It's my understanding that fillers are best used with Black powder not smokeless.

[445sm]

Reloader 7 is the slowest powder I've used in my 45 Henry the case runs out of
Room before you get top speed a 300 xtp 26gr R-7 1227fps nice shooting
Load this load is not from any reloading manual
My fun load is a 225 cast over 18.5gr of imr 4227, 1275fps it takes 2.5lb
Per 1000 rounds if I use unique one pound will load 1000 rds
Slower powder cost way more
IF you let them the variable will drive you nuts I no this for a fact
Good luck on your journey and shoot safe

My 44mag is a 10" tc I use lil-gun.

[Frontiersman]

For me, the attraction is in the interchangeability of the cartridges. I really like the idea of carrying one kind of ammo for both rifle and handgun.

And of course, the rifle was made for shooting handgun ammo ...

[JEBar]

For me, the attraction is in the interchangeability of the cartridges. I really like the idea of carrying one kind of ammo for both rifle and handgun.

And of course, the rifle was made for shooting handgun ammo ...

being able to carry one cartridge for interchangeable use in a revolver and rifle has been highly prized since well before the west was won .... in fact, being able to fire the same ball in black powder pistols and rifles was prized .... back in the '60's I bear/boar hunted with Ruger Blackhawk 44 mag and its companion Ruger semiautomatic 44 mag carbine .... with the advancement of semiautomatic pistols, that seemed to minimize the desire for a single rifle/pistol cartridge .... for our hunting/full power 44 mag loads we will continue to use W296 .... we will use Unique for the target ammo