Cowgirl Corner: 1911 accuracy check and some thoughts

[Mags]

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Welcome from the TV Oregon. I have a Sig Sauer 1911. Really hard for me to rack the slide. Doesn't bind or stick, just really hard pull against the rack spring.

My heart is with the 1911. It’s the weapon I was issued in the ‘60s and my first USMC centerfire. A work of art. Throwing a clod in the churn, there may be something to the point that sloppy is good for military use (vis the AK reliability versus the M4/M16). And accuracy is the tradeoff.

Having said that, I’ve been shooting competitively since the 70s and there are some VERY fine 1911s in circulation. OTOT, my experience with other weapons (e.g. Glock) is that they all will malfunction. Including revolvers. Every last one. One of my favorite guns is my Les Baer, so tight that when it arrived my gunsmith went for a hammer. It was just that tight, though. We couldn’t rack the slide.

Revolvers will fail. Autos will fail. I lost a complete stage in a championship match because my Glock choked and puked in a rapid-fire stage. If it’s a man-made device it’ll go off the rails from time to time, and the best we can do is jiggle the odds in our favor.

Notwithstanding, the 1911 frame is my personal favorite. I can heartily recommend Dan Wesson, and heartily recommend Les Baer if you want to throw down big money. No design to date has matched the 1911 trigger. John Browning was a pretty bright guy, all in all

[ESquared]

I had a Sig Nightmare Carry in 357Sig at one time. Great firearm. Was my first 1911, now that I think about it.

[BigAl52]

I have 2 Sig 1911's. One nightmare in 5 inch and a spartan in 4 inch. The Spartan in 4 inch will shoot right along side my buddies CZ Dan Wesson 1911. I havent shot mine for a while because I have been in lever gun mode and single action pistol mode but when I do the sigs really shoot well.

[ESquared]

P225 was the first Sig I ever owned, nearly 25 years ago. Have more than I need but can't bring myself to sell off any more of them. Can't decide which one would go first.

[North Country Gal]

I've also had several Sig 1911s and all were excellent shooters.

Since we're on the subject of 1911s and this is a forum that caters to western style guns, I think it's interesting how 1911s and other early semi-autos, bolt guns, pump shotguns and so on, have never really made it into the "guns of the west" or the cowboy/cowgirl legend thing, even though the west was far from being tamed when these guns first appeared, prior to WW I. For those wanting to see a great western movie with 1911s, pump shotguns, bolt guns and so on, be sure to check the Wild Bunch.

Along those same lines, we recently picked up another beautiful Browning semi-auto 22 LR (SA-22) which was John Browning's last design, introduced in 1914 and still being made, today.

[Sir Henry]

To me if it came after the car or plane it isn’t cowboy.

[BrokenolMarine]

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Welcome from the TV Oregon. I have a Sig Sauer 1911. Really hard for me to rack the slide. Doesn't bind or stick, just really hard pull against the rack spring.

Mags,

If you aren't planning to carry the SIG for personal defense, I would call SIG and discuss the stiff slide with them. If you are shooting bullseye, or just plinking, it may be as simple as a reduced weight recoil spring. When i shoot 45 ball, i use full power springs. When I shoot semi wadcutter for matches, i use a reduced power spring. The gun functions perfectly...

SIG may call the gun back and tune it. I have found them to stand behind their products. It's good for business.

[North Country Gal]

To me if it came after the car or plane it isn’t cowboy.

But what about those new fangled railroads? Yup, all a matter of where you personally draw the line. To me, it's all a matter of degree, no real cut off point, given that there are still working cowboys on horses to this day on some ranches.

[Sir Henry]

The railroad is just an iron horse.

[Mistered]

I think it's interesting how 1911s and other early semi-autos, bolt guns, pump shotguns and so on, have never really made it into the "guns of the west" or the cowboy/cowgirl legend thing, even though the west was far from being tamed when these guns first appeared, prior to WW I.

I often wondered the same thing myself and my hypothesis is it due to 'socioeconomic' reasons. While it is true the west was far from being tamed when these guns appeared, these guns were still a long way from the untamed areas. Also the people who were still in these 'untamed' areas were mostly the last of the homesteaders, who were still able to get their 160 acres of free land and trying to make a go of it with little to no money and that meant they had to make due with what they already had which were most likely 'typical' western era guns.
Interestingly in my own state of Oregon there is a very unique history about this. During the late 1800s when everyone was 'heading west' most of those were on their way to more economically viable (and fertile) areas and this typically meant California and Western Washington. Oregon by contrast (especially Eastern) was mostly bypassed due to lack of opportunities and because a lot of it was simply very remote. There was however a resurgence of late homesteading in this area (mostly promoted by the Government with the offer of free land) and a fairly large number of people began to populate the Central and Eastern Oregon high desert areas. This was primarily in the early 1900's and really hit it's peak around the 1930's with several small towns springing up in the area and a very unique lifestyle among those who lived in the area. It was mostly a hardscrabble existence however with attempts at ranching and farming but with water very deep and difficult to obtain most failed and by WW2
This is mostly a 'regional' history and of limited interest so there is very little written about it other than by a few Oregon and PNW historians who have written about it, or their own personal experiences during the time.
One such book is called 'The Oregon Desert' and was written by a man named Rube Long who was a prominent figure in the area and during this time.
He wrote his book in 1971 and it was one of the first books I bought after moving to Oregon and began my own personal 'quest' to learn about the area and it's early residents.
I recommend this book to anyone who has in interest in this time period as it has a lot of pictures from the time period along with personal observations by the author (and co-author).
It is relatively light reading and somewhat 'anecdotal' but was (and still is) a somewhat popular and well known book about the area and is still in print and easily available.
Here is a good picture from the book and is estimated from 1922 in the town of Silver Lake which is only about an hour from me - and is still an active community with about 150 residents. It reflects however what could be a picture from the 1880's - yet is in the early 20's.
Sorry for the thread drift....

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[Sir Henry]

I would like that book.

I guess I think cowboy when I think lever actions and cowboys were only around for 20 years. A cowboy to me is a person that moved cattle to market. Cowboy was later used as someone that worked a ranch.

Western era lasted up until the Great Depression. ???

[Mistered]

I guess I think cowboy when I think lever actions and cowboys were only around for 20 years.

Yea it really wasn't a long time - and very sparse and scattered up through probably the early to mid 30's anyway - and mostly gone by WW2 - but that ended a lot of early, and traditional endeavors when the majority of younger people enlisted to fight the war.
Call me cynical (probably more 'semantical') but I hate it when lever action rifles and single action pistols are referred to as 'Cowboy Guns'.
These guns were not designed specifically for 'cowboys' and were most likely owned by vastly greater numbers of people than just 'cowboys' (and over a greater time period) but heck we couldn't have had nearly a 100 years of Western movies based on anything else so I guess this misnomer will always be with us!

[Henry88]

I think cowboy had a derogatory implication originally? People that would come in dirty and bust up towns.

Sort of like the cowboys portrayed in the movie "Tombstone"

[Mistered]

Here is a website that might be interesting to some.
It is of the Fort Rock Museum in Fort Rock, Oregon.
Fort Rock was sort of the 'epicenter' of the area and this area was land originally owned by Rube Long (the author of the book I mentioned) and he deeded it to the state and now it is a State Park.
The museum is made up of all real buildings and artifacts that were either scavenged or donated by people from the area. The area is still an unincorporated community with probably a couple hundred residents.
http://www.fortrockoregon.com/

[North Country Gal]

Even up here, after the great logging era of the late 1800s, there were entrepreneurs who tried selling this as farming country, trying to get people to settle in the area because of the cheap land. Of course, most of it was a scam, since this is not farming country, other than some scattered potato and cranberry farms.

Read somewhere that the most common gun on the western frontier was definitely not a lever gun or a Colt revolver, since those were very expensive and very few cowboys or settlers could afford them. Nope, the most common gun, accordion to historians, was the more affordable and all around useful shotgun.

[Mistered]

Nope, the most common gun, accordion to historians, was the more affordable and all around useful shotgun.

I can agree with this.
In the late 1800s - early 1900s many European manufacturers were flooding the US market with cheap, Damascus, double barreled shotguns.
These were sold by many retailers for pretty cheap.
I have an early Belgium made double that is one of these and has the words on the barrel rib 'Fine Twist' - which is indicative of it being Damascus made barrels.
Heck some of these weren't even safe to shoot when new - which was not unusual with many early guns.

[BigAl52]

To me if it came after the car or plane it isn’t cowboy.

Poor RR he doesnt get any respect. RR is our forum Cowboy and not every forum has a true cowboy.

[ESquared]

Hats off to RanchRoper!

[North Country Gal]

Well, as far as I'm concerned, RR is as real a cowboy as has ever been. He's darn near a page out of history.

[Sir Henry]

To me if it came after the car or plane it isn’t cowboy.

Poor RR he doesnt get any respect. RR is our forum Cowboy and not every forum has a true cowboy.

We can be a tough crowd sometimes.