Clean that bore on the 22's

[ronnie]

Many different way's of getting there one thing to heed is too much cleaning.More damage has been done by cleaning than shooting.
What is your ritual on getting it done?

R

[Deadwood Dutch]

I clean my rifles and hand guns after each time at the range, except the .22 rifles. Those I only clean after several trips.

[Sir Henry]

I only wipe down the exterior of my rimfire rifles and don't see a need to clean them.

[bandit1250]

I am going to be the odd man out in this one. I clean my rifles, which are many, after about every two boxes of ammo. I have kept track of my best shooters and they shoot their best between 6 to 80 shots and then the groups will start to open up. It may be slightly bigger in size but it is usually always there. It just gets worse from there. It gets bad faster when juggling back and forth with different brands of ammo. Ever research the anatomy of rim fire cartridges? The primer as we all know has no anvil like a center fire. So when the firing pin strikes the rim in order to get friction your powder in the rim has powdered glass in it. Ground glass is known not to be bore friendly. My rifles I at least always run a wet patch through followed by a few clean dry patches. My rifles tend to shoot as well and most the time better than friends I shoot with. It just seems to me you should occasionally clean your barrel with bullets going down the bore with particles of glass in there. I read maybe it was in Precision Shooter, but not sure, that high round rim fire barrels showed a tendency to show more wear at the bottom of the throat and was thought to come from the glass in the primer falling to the bottom of the barrel and the bullet was sanding away at the throat. Maybe this is what started the stuff about cleaning wearing out your barrel. Let your rifle sit around dirty for a while. Then pull a bore snake through from the breach and watch the white looking powdery stuff fly out the end when the bore snake is pulled out. Sure doesn't look like bullet wax to me. I have friends who own some of the rifles just like mine. They NEVER clean their barrels and when we are shooting my rifles will kick their butt and we can trade rifles and then some times the tables are turned. They blame everything except they are to cheap to buy good cleaning supplies. I cleaned a few of their center fires after a few seasons of neglect and the rust in the bore on a couple tore the cleaning patch to shreds. Cleaning your rifle at times will not ruin your barrel if you use a bore guide on your bolt actions or a muzzle protector on your levers. My wife and I shoot off my back porch. I will be shooting and she is sitting there reading a book when she is not wanting to shoot. I will say this CZ or Remington which ever it may be is not doing it today. She will say it might need cleaned. I walk in my gun room and clean the barrel with a wet patch and one pass with a bronze "22" brush and dry the bore and go back out and fire usually only three to five shots and go back to the target and see that same rifle shoot little groups again and shoot bugs off the target that I would have been lucky to hit before cleaning my barrel. I will always keep my 22's clean. Probably going to hear some disagreement on this but that is O.K. YMMV

[Sir Henry]

I am going to be the odd man out in this one. I clean my rifles, which are many, after about every two boxes of ammo. I have kept track of my best shooters and they shoot their best between 6 to 80 shots and then the groups will start to open up. It may be slightly bigger in size but it is usually always there. It just gets worse from there. It gets bad faster when juggling back and forth with different brands of ammo. Ever research the anatomy of rim fire cartridges? The primer as we all know has no anvil like a center fire. So when the firing pin strikes the rim in order to get friction your powder in the rim has powdered glass in it. Ground glass is known not to be bore friendly. My rifles I at least always run a wet patch through followed by a few clean dry patches. My rifles tend to shoot as well and most the time better than friends I shoot with. It just seems to me you should occasionally clean your barrel with bullets going down the bore with particles of glass in there. I read maybe it was in Precision Shooter, but not sure, that high round rim fire barrels showed a tendency to show more wear at the bottom of the throat and was thought to come from the glass in the primer falling to the bottom of the barrel and the bullet was sanding away at the throat. Maybe this is what started the stuff about cleaning wearing out your barrel. Let your rifle sit around dirty for a while. Then pull a bore snake through from the breach and watch the white looking powdery stuff fly out the end when the bore snake is pulled out. Sure doesn't look like bullet wax to me. I have friends who own some of the rifles just like mine. They NEVER clean their barrels and when we are shooting my rifles will kick their butt and we can trade rifles and then some times the tables are turned. They blame everything except they are to cheap to buy good cleaning supplies. I cleaned a few of their center fires after a few seasons of neglect and the rust in the bore on a couple tore the cleaning patch to shreds. Cleaning your rifle at times will not ruin your barrel if you use a bore guide on your bolt actions or a muzzle protector on your levers. My wife and I shoot off my back porch. I will be shooting and she is sitting there reading a book when she is not wanting to shoot. I will say this CZ or Remington which ever it may be is not doing it today. She will say it might need cleaned. I walk in my gun room and clean the barrel with a wet patch and one pass with a bronze "22" brush and dry the bore and go back out and fire usually only three to five shots and go back to the target and see that same rifle shoot little groups again and shoot bugs off the target that I would have been lucky to hit before cleaning my barrel. I will always keep my 22's clean. Probably going to hear some disagreement on this but that is O.K. YMMV

Thanks for the reply. I've never bothered cleaning mine and haven't noticed any changes in group size in some rifles with more than 100,000 rounds through it. But many of those rifles were never all that accurate in the first place especially with the ammo I was using at the time. I mean if a rifle can only do a two inch group at 25 yards is a two and a quarter inch group all that bad?

But now that I own some CZ's and shooting premium ammo I'm going to give some thought to what you just said. Some of my rifles will do quarter inch groups at 50 yards and adding another quarter inch to that is doubling the group.

By the way I have a couple Small Game Carbines that will come close to the CZ's. They are far more accurate than the Classic, Frontier and other H001's.

[bandit1250]

Sir Henry, I am talking more about CZ's and Remington bolt rifles that shoot very well. I fully understand what you are saying about rifles that shoot rather large groups not really seeing any difference. Just last week a friend stopped by and I was shooting my wife's Marlin 39M that had a red dot on it last winter and I shot the h--- out of it when I went out in the snow and shot empty shot shell hulls. Put a scope on and was shooting 25 yds. That thing was horrible compared to how well it usually shoots. My friend said what are you shooting. I told him my wife's 39M. I think the scope I put on is bad. So I switched it out and nothing was any better. Then it hit me I had not cleaned that gun for quite some time because it was what I was taking out all the time. So I cleaned it my normal way and the patches came out with tiny pieces of lead on them. I showed them to my friend and he couldn't believe it. I went back on to my bench on the porch and shot 8 shots at 25 yds. with the Tac 22 that was about the size of a 35 cal. bullet hole. My friend said to me "Sell me that gun." I said hers are not for sale so I've been told. Amazing how that rifle was leaded shooting maybe 300 rounds of Blazers through it. My CZ's like to be cleaned when using Tac 22. Sir Henry do your own tests and keep some records on your CZ's and those Henry's you said that shoot real well with the Tac 22 on where they start grouping the best after cleaning and how many rounds before you see any change in group size. Mine average from about 6 shots to about 80 for best accuracy so I never hardly ever go more than 100 unless just plinking around where groups mean little. By the way you have some terrific shooters in your Henry's to hang there with the CZ's. None of mine have a prayer against most of my bolt rifles. Ever try different torque on your CZ action screws? Sometimes amazing things happen when changing the torque on those screws. Take care and shoot often.

[ronnie]

I normally don't clean unless i switch ammo and if it groups all is well.I have gone a couple hundred rounds or more until the group opens up somewhat and even then a wet patch with a patch worm then 1/2 doz dry.Nice and small and great results. Now my 17hmr gets more attention.
But the 22 lr are low maintenance.My CZ scout will easily go more than 200 rounds.All I shoot at paper with are all CZ's

http://www.patchworm.com/index.htm

R

[Sir Henry]

Sir Henry, I am talking more about CZ's and Remington bolt rifles that shoot very well. I fully understand what you are saying about rifles that shoot rather large groups not really seeing any difference. Just last week a friend stopped by and I was shooting my wife's Marlin 39M that had a red dot on it last winter and I shot the h--- out of it when I went out in the snow and shot empty shot shell hulls. Put a scope on and was shooting 25 yds. That thing was horrible compared to how well it usually shoots. My friend said what are you shooting. I told him my wife's 39M. I think the scope I put on is bad. So I switched it out and nothing was any better. Then it hit me I had not cleaned that gun for quite some time because it was what I was taking out all the time. So I cleaned it my normal way and the patches came out with tiny pieces of lead on them. I showed them to my friend and he couldn't believe it. I went back on to my bench on the porch and shot 8 shots at 25 yds. with the Tac 22 that was about the size of a 35 cal. bullet hole. My friend said to me "Sell me that gun." I said hers are not for sale so I've been told. Amazing how that rifle was leaded shooting maybe 300 rounds of Blazers through it. My CZ's like to be cleaned when using Tac 22. Sir Henry do your own tests and keep some records on your CZ's and those Henry's you said that shoot real well with the Tac 22 on where they start grouping the best after cleaning and how many rounds before you see any change in group size. Mine average from about 6 shots to about 80 for best accuracy so I never hardly ever go more than 100 unless just plinking around where groups mean little. By the way you have some terrific shooters in your Henry's to hang there with the CZ's. None of mine have a prayer against most of my bolt rifles. Ever try different torque on your CZ action screws? Sometimes amazing things happen when changing the torque on those screws. Take care and shoot often.

Most of my shooting now is with standard velocity lead round nose and I don't have leading issues. If I switch back and forth with high velocity plated (washed) I sometimes get a little.

[Travlin]

Bandit,
Very interesting about the glass in the primers. I would think that it would be better to clean from the muzzle toward the breach if the chamber is the source of the glass. I have two S&W K-122's, a 1931 Outdoorsman and a 17-4. They both have tight chambers and have to be swabbed out after about 50 or 60 shots.

[Squatch]

I mostly clean my rifles and pistols after each shooting session. Unless it was a light day and I'll be back shooting within a day or two. I'm old school and have had my cleaning stuff for years. So I clean from the muzzle and do it carefully. I normally use old Hoppes #9.
I run a wet patch through the bore.
Then dip a brass brush in solvent and run that through and back a few times.
Then another wet patch.
Then follow with double dry patches about 3 times.
If the 3rd dry patch is still dirty I'll repeat. and maybe repeat again.
Final is a patch wet with gun oil or Ballistol to keep the bore from rusting.

I always run a dry patch through the bore before shooting to wipe out the oil.

My bores all look and shoot great. I use a soft rod and my muzzle crowns are like new.

On the exterior of my Henry's I wipe the rifles down with "Johnson's Paste Wax" in the yellow can. This is furniture wax not car wax. Then buff them. They look great and don't rust. I use it on everything. Wood, Brass, blued metal.




It works for me.

Lately I've tried using Ballistol. It works well. But irritates my nose.

[ditto1958]

I believe in regular, but gentle, cleaning. Even .22's. I use Ballistol and boresnakes.

[ronnie]

More great stuff Have used for years .Apply with fingers drys real quick buff with cotton rags and re apply buff again and enjoy the results.
Don't think there is anything better.Can be applied to wood steel leather plastics used by museums forever.Buy a can and it will last for years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Wax

google it for gun mtce. https://www.google.ca/search?q=rennasau ... TTUfbTsPgE

R

[Sir Henry]

I like FrogLube for the exterior of my firearms. I know they say it works great on moving parts but I've found that even a trace amount of it will turn to wax in sub-zero weather. None of my Henrys liked it. The firing pin would not slip through the bolt and my H001's would not go bang.

An expensive natural hair paintbrush and just a drop of FrogLube on the bristles and you are ready to paint the exterior. If you want to get rid of fine dust for photography its the thing you want. After you have done a few rifles the paint brush gets the lube everywhere on it and gets even better with more use. Don't use it for anything else. If I get too much on the firearm I will take a small terrycloth washcloth and wipe it off. Keep that washcloth and never wash it. After awhile it too gets built up with the lube and you can then use it to wipe down things either adding lube or taking it away. Then go back to the paintbrush and remove any lint the rag might have left. It will almost make your firearm finger proof if you get it just right.

[PT7]

Clean after every range time here. Just a natural to-do for me; well-known by my kids as "The Cleaning Nut."
I come alongside two others on bore cleaning.

1) Just like Squatch I'm somewhat "old-school." I use Hoppe's No. 9 same way with a wet patch, then bronze bore brush, more dry patches until clean --- all done slowly and very, very carefully with a cleaning rod and plastic slot from muzzle end. Final patch run through is with a dab of RemOil. After the Henry rests on the cleaning rest for a while, a couple of passes with a bore mop puts on the finishing touch. Always works well.

Also use RemOil to clean the barrel, metal, all non-wood. Lightly dry it off with a micro-fiber cloth. About the only thing I would change in this routine is to use G96 in place of Hoppe's No. 9. It's a very good CLP product. Then I don't use the RemOil.

2) Per Ronnie's suggestion on the Renaissance Wax. That's all I've used on my Henrys' wood, and it does a great job for me. It's quite simple, too.

When I'm done cleaning, I have to turn off the workshop light. The Henry is just too dazzling to behold!

[Travlin]

If a firearm is going to be in the safe for a while, I use Boeshield T-9 when dry it leaves a waxy coating. Also I'm still in the number 9 camp for cleaning. I will check out the yellow can Johnson's wax as I always keep some in the gun room. Thanks to all of you for an informative discussion.

[dasmoeturhead]

1st off I was raised by a U.S.M.C. Sargent, who's life revolved around guns, hunting, reloading etc. I was taught to clean my weapons after each use. Right or wrong that's been embedded in my skull since before I can remember.
If I fail to do this I feel the OLD Marine is looking down at me from the Happy Hunting Grounds just shaking his head saying; Boy I thought I taught you better. As such I taught my children the same old fashion ways of days gone by.
When someone picks up one of my firearms, they always comment on how clean they are. I take pride in that.
I don't really own the guns, I'm just the caretaker of them until the next person takes over the job. They will be around for a very long time, and hopefully in the hands of my family for generations to come.
My 20+ years in the USCG also taught me the same principles of weapon cleaning that my Dad instilled in me and my little brother. Just my .02 cents worth.

[clovishound]

I have a Ruger Mark I target pistol in .22lr. I bought it new in 1976. I have cleaned it after every trip to the range. It has seem many multiple thousands of rounds over the years. It still is a tack driver. I don't field strip it every range visit, but found from experience that after a large amount of rounds (perhaps a thousand or more) without field strip cleaning, I will start to have feed and fire problems.

I don't see how running a brush or patch down the bore could do more damage than a bullet traveling down the bore. If you introduce an abrasive other than what was already in the bore then perhaps it might, but that is unlikely.

[BigAl52]

I always clean from the chamber end if I can. When I cant I use the Otis system. Especially on a lever gun. I don't like pushing the fouling into the action area. I don't always clean after every range session if I don't shoot that many rounds thru the gun. Im a little more lax on the 22's also than I am on the center fires. I use eezox and Hoppes with an occasional kroil. I sometimes shoot lead bullets and get some barrel leading. I use Lemon Pledge on the exterior of all of my guns. I shoot a lot of black powder also and those guns must be cleaned after use if you want to have anything left to shoot in the future. Al

[GFK]

1st off I was raised by a U.S.M.C. Sargent, who's life revolved around guns, hunting, reloading etc. I was taught to clean my weapons after each use. Right or wrong that's been embedded in my skull since before I can remember.
If I fail to do this I feel the OLD Marine is looking down at me from the Happy Hunting Grounds just shaking his head saying; Boy I thought I taught you better. As such I taught my children the same old fashion ways of days gone by.
When someone picks up one of my firearms, they always comment on how clean they are. I take pride in that.
I don't really own the guns, I'm just the caretaker of them until the next person takes over the job. They will be around for a very long time, and hopefully in the hands of my family for generations to come.
My 20+ years in the USCG also taught me the same principles of weapon cleaning that my Dad instilled in me and my little brother. Just my .02 cents worth.

I am similar. So, I understand. My Dad was a Sailor (gun crew). And, I served in the Navy just past 20 years myself. One thing I did learned from my Father as was while in the Navy: if you take care of your tools, they will take care of you. My wife thinks I go to the extreme on things. But for the past twenty years we have been together, she has not worried about a vehicle or something in the house not working. Things have been ready to operate when called upon which can go unnoticed until required. The moral, cleaning should not hurt it but ensure it is ready for when you want to use it. Just my tidbit.

[Les]

I use a pull-through ... not a bore snake ... after every shooting session. The pull-through is just a nylon cord with a patch on the end, so there's no chance of damaging anything. I use a wet patch first, followed by a dry one.

After several hundred rounds, I'll leave a wet mop in the breech for a while to attack any powder ring that might have formed in the throat area, and then I'll give the bore a few strokes with a nylon brush. If I've neglected to do this for a while, I might get tempted to use a bronze brush.