Iron Sights: Back on the Soapbox

[ditto1958]

As some may be aware, I am a huge proponent of shooting with iron sights. One of my biggest pet peeves is hearing shooters complain about their "old eyes," or "bad eyes." These days, no one seems to think they can shoot anything without the latest, biggest and most expensive optics on their guns.

Anyways, today at the range, a young guy, likely in his 30's, was shooting an AR-15, a real basic M-4 with a carry handle. He was shooting at, and hitting, some largish steel gongs at 100 yards, so he decided to try some harder ones. He hit a smaller, maybe 10 inch steel swinger, and attracted my attention when his reaction was one of surprise that he was able to shoot it with iron sights. I got his attention, and told him to shoot at the steel "hockey puck" that was hanging next to the 10 incher. At first he didn't see it, as the paint had been shot off of it, but he looked through the spotting scope and saw it. He came back to the bench and hit it on his third try. He was not only happy as a pig in mud, but also very surprised at what he had succeeded in doing with his rifle.

Now, this is on the one hand a positive thing, because this shooter was clearly having a very enjoyable shooting experience at the range, and improved his shooting skills.

On the other hand, I got to thinking: why are so many shooters- even experienced ones- so often surprised at what firearms can do? The guy at the range? He was no novice- he is a dealer with an ffl. Yet, at least until now, he had little understanding of how well he was capable of shooting without a scope. Me? I remember when I was younger watching movies like Sgt. York, where Gary Cooper is at the range, and all of his shots go through one hole in the target. Maybe people younger than I am never got exposed to much of that. America has a long heritage of marksmanship, but I fear it may be dying.

[RanchRoper]

I'm with you. I will use iron sights as long as I possibly can. I am trying to become proficient with them. I like the tradition, the historic significance, the old west feel, and the satisfaction of being able to hit what I'm aiming at as they did in the old days. I get the purpose of peeps, etc and may use them some day, but for now I will challenge myself as long as I possibly can.

[JEBar]

a choice of rifle sights really isn't any degree of soapbox issue for me .... I have rifles with buckhorn sights, rifles with scopes, a rifle with a peep sight .... I honestly don't care what anyone else uses, I tend to use what serves me best and I enjoy the most ....

[RanchRoper]

Well put.

[North Country Gal]

I still use both. However, there are days when the only way I can get the accuracy I want is with a scope. It's just that simple. Scopes takes fuzzy and blurry iron sights out of the equation for me and that's not just an age thing, it's also a chronic allergy thing. Allergies can definitely affect my vision. I also have to deal with mostly cloudy days and shooting targets in the shadows and shade or against a brushy background. That's when iron sights really suffer for target work. There's just no escaping the fact that my average scores and group sizes over the long run are better with a scope, even for offhand shooting, and I have the targets to prove it. Takes a lot of experience using scopes for offhand work, by the way. Nothing easy about it, but the effort has been worth it for my shooting.

Also, scopes are traditional. They've been around at least as long as lever guns. Maybe not as traditional as iron sights, but they do have a lot of history behind them.

On the other hand, there are days when conditions are just right for iron sights and I can do work that compares to a scope. Not a lot of days, mind you, but I do take advantage of them when I can. There are also days when I just feel like shooting iron. There are also some types of guns where iron sights are the only practical way to go. Yes, I think too many of us oldsters are a bit hasty in writing off iron sights and hurrying to scope our guns, but I can't blame anyone for wanting to make the most of precious range time by choosing to go with a scope or even a red dot. After all, it's a lot more fun to hit the target than miss it.

All in all, I just don't see this as an either/or thing. Every type of sight has its good and bad. Good to have choices, though. Glad I do.

[Les]

I have recently started using aperture/peep sights on my target rifles. The last time I used peep sights was when I was a teenager, shooting a BSA Martini .22 Mk1.

Up until my late 20's, I could still use iron/open sights quite easily, but gradually the sight picture just became a blur, so I switched to using scopes, and I used them exclusively until a couple of months ago.

I bought a Skinner sight for my H003T, and I get on quite well with it, but the real clincher was when I tried a friends target rifle wearing peep sights. I was amazed at how well I could still see the target, and how accurately I could shoot with it. I thought my 'marksman' [ ] days were well and truly behind me, but as a result, I have purchased a full set of target sights for my Anschutz and Vostok target rifles.

All I need to do now is practice! I'll never be a teenager again, but I can sure feel like one!

[ditto1958]

Les, you never have to stop being a teenager!

[Les]

Les, you never have to stop being a teenager!

Yep, growing old is mandatory, but growing up is optional!

[DAVIDF]

I own only one scope and that is a non-magnified Aimpoint red dot. I purchased it 2 1/2 years ago. I love it, but it is mounted on one of my ARs that I rarely shoot. Its primary purpose is as a night site. Maybe someday I'll buy a scope with magnification for a specific rifle or handgun, but irons are more fun.

But, it has gotten harder to get a perfect sight picture particularly when lighting is not perfect. One day at the 100 yard range my can of orange spray paint ran out. The only can I had left was black. Unfortunately the berm behind my 12" plate was also quite black. All I could see were the chromed steel chains the plate was hanging from. Couldn't see my black shepherds hooks either. I could kind of triangulate and follow the chains and estimate the center of the gong. I hit it each time, but not with precision of course.

I am still testing a few loads out of my Big Boy to determine which bullet and which powder charge is most accurate. Hopefully, I'll figure that out this weekend. Once I do, I'll adjust one of the tabs on the elevator for 50 yards. Then, I plan to take it over to the 100 yard range and adjust the next tab up on the elevator by filing it gradually until my point of aim is either right on or slightly high, no more than 2". 2" high or slightly less would be perfect for shooting clay pigeons since I could use a 6 o'clock hold.

[RanchRoper]

When they clear out at the range and call me Mr. Magoo I guess I'll change to a scope.

[Hospitaler]

I can't even see the front sight.

[ditto1958]

I can't even see the front sight.

It's that little black thing sticking up from the end of your barrel...

[CT_Shooter]

I can't even see the front sight.

It's that little black thing sticking up from the end of your barrel...

Depending on the barrel, that just might be a straw!

[rwortman]

Deteriorating eyesight is a real thing that happens as we age. I can't shoot a pistol as well as I used to simply because I can't see the sights as clearly. The aperture sight I have on my Henry 22WMR works pretty well. However, the 1/16" post on the front sight covers about a 9" circle at 100 yards. That would make placing a shot on a small critter pretty difficult with young eyes and mine aren't. A 9" circle covers up most .22 sized critters. This limits things to around 50 yards without a scope. I am OK with that. The gun would look wrong with all those replica design cues and a modern scope and vintage scope replicas are too expensive. I put a compact scope on my BBS because someday I may hunt with it and I just wanted better precision at long range.

[Ojaileveraction]

For moa shooting I'll need a good scope every time. Shooting minute of chicken or even ram, peep sights are more fun.
I've been spotting for a friend shooting his black powder single shots on the 500 yard range. Along side him I've been shooting my 45-70 using cast lead bullets out to 500 yards. It's amazing what a good spotter can help you shoot. Again I'm talking hits anywhere on a 10-12 moa target.

[ditchparrot]

I own only one rifle with a scope, a .30-06, and it has only one purpose – shooting at big game at distances greater than 100 yards. I'm hesitant to say "never" about anything, but the chances that I'll ever put a scope on any of my Henry's are extremely slim.

My competition shooting is all done with shotguns at flying clay targets. I shoot rifles for enjoyment (and I put hunting in that category).

For me, iron sights are simply more enjoyable.

[BigAl52]

When they clear out at the range and call me Mr. Magoo I guess I'll change to a scope.

Nah it wont happen RR but they might call you the old troubador like in the George Stait song.

[kjunman10]

I believe that when one gets to be 80 years of age he has the right to complain about "Old Eyes" so I see no reason for it to be a pet peeve of anyone. At some time in life adjustments have to be made for failing eyesight Even with my Old Eyes I continue to shoot with iron sights on my lever guns. I am having a problem now with the buckhorn sights and looking into peep sights to help my shooting. I will not go to shooting targets with a scope as I don't feel good target shooting should be done with one. When you can get good groups with iron sights at some distance then you have something to talk about, brag if you want to.
I don't complain about my failing eyesight, I only mention it when seeking assistance in setting up my rifles with an alternative to the buckhorn sights which I seem to have problem with especially on my Henry Frontier.
Ya'll have a Good Day!

[JEBar]

as noted in an earlier post in this thread, not any degree of soapbox issue for me and, frankly, I find it somewhat mystifying that so many folks find it to be one .... I have firearms with a range of sights ... I've worn glasses since before I went to first grade and I'll soon turn 71 .... I've worn trifocals for decades and don't foresee that changing .... I don't hunt from a Texas type tower stand overlooking a field that is literally a square mile in size without a scope .... I don't hunt in woods where a 20 yard shot is the norm with scope on my rifle .... my personal preferences are mine .... other folks personal preferences are theirs .... when I go to a range, I carry what I want to carry and shoot what I want to shoot .... in short, I believe others have the right to make their own choices and its none of my business what they use .... I also believe the converse of that is also true

[RanchRoper]

As my eyes get worse I think bigger bullets is the answer.