Big bore Marlins

[Redthies]

Ok, so the latest offering in my horse trading life is one of either a JM Marlin in .444 or a late Remlin 1895 CB in .45-70 Gov. Now I know the wisdom is to always go JM, but I don’t reload, and don’t intend to start again for a very long time. .444 is pretty thin on the ground at the best of times, and I want any gun I buy to be able to carry out it’s appointed duties. I also hate oddball calibres (.35 Rem is another one I don’t care for) as I want to be able to find factory ammo locally.

With that said, both these rifles are near new, with very little use, and I can trade my mostly unused Ruger American in 7-08 for either one. I really can’t go wrong from a financial standpoint, but given the No reload scenario, is there really any reason I should consider the .444? It’s not worth significantly more than the 1895 CB, and I FAR prefer the Texan stock and Octogon barrel of the CB. The one thing with the CB is, I would not leave it as a 26” barrel. I would have my smith take it down to 18 or 20”. I wouldn’t do this to a JM, but Remlins are “expendable” in my eyes. There was a shorter JM Cowboy model in the past, so I don’t think it’s a terrible idea. I’d basically be making a big bore Texan carbine. I’m not sure how this would effect value, but also not sure I’d give a damn

Thoughts? Am I missing something significant here?

[Redthies]

Photos of the 26” version, and an older JM with what I’m guessing is a 20” barrel?

[Redthies]

Seller of the shorter barrel on I stole picture of says it’s 18.5” and apparently only 1000 or so were made in the shorter barrel.

[Vaquero]

Well Red, you do know what they say about opinions right?
Can't believe you dis'd the mighty 35 Rem chambering like that. One of my favorites.

Now as to the Big bores, I'm a Big fan of the t-4's and own a pair.
Have never understood the awe of the ole 45-70, but to each his own.
The biggest jam-0-matic I've ever witnessed was a JM 45-70 that belonged to the f-i-l.
Finally got it operating fairly well and we sent it packin. Never wanted another.
After reading this thread before I started this post I went to Ammoseek.
The price of each are nearly the same, but I do know that on a regular basis that 45-70 is generally easy to find.

As to chopping the barrel of the Remlin I wouldn't think twice about it if that is what you want.
To me that 26" octagon is a thang of beauty.
Heck, back in the spring of '16 I picked up a like new 1975 RC 35 Rem for $300 + some changes.
The next year I had it chopped to 16.5" and love it. It did devalue it considerably, but
guess what? I couldn't care less. That thing is a dream to carry in and out of the woods.
Shoots every bit as good as before and drops whitetails with ease.
And I don't plan for it to leave before I do.

Well, guess I weren't much help, but there ya go.
One opinion, for what it's worth.

RP

[John E Davies]

Cut the barrel on the Remlin. I have shortened a couple of guns myself, they proved to be difficult to resell, and I lost a lot of money. Use a good smith, make sure he refinishes the cut portions to match, and keep the receipt. I personally would cut it to less than 17”. The .45/70 does fine from that length and it makes for a very handy carbine. This was my 2004 1895 STP (limited edition of 200), with factory 16.25” barrel.

FYI any rifle less than 20” with a cut down barrel is illegal to possess in Canada, but a factory made one is fine. Go figure….. this info was from ten years ago.

My Marlin had severe restrictions underneath the two sight dovetail slots, and it definitely required fire lapping, after that it shot fantastically.

John Davies
Spokane WA

[BigAl52]

Just get both of them then you dont need to decide. 444 would be my choice. Ive owned both and I like the 444 it will do anything you need to do.

[Redthies]

Cut the barrel on the Remlin. I have shortened a couple of guns myself, they proved to be difficult to resell.

FYI any rifle less than 20” with a cut down barrel is illegal to possess in Canada, but a factory made one is fine. Go figure….. this info was from ten years ago.

I was aware that there was a law, but couldn’t remember the length. My smith will know. It’s ironic that there is a law about shortening, but it’s fine to own a factory SBR. I have a 870 clone with a 12” barrel. No problem. Add a full stock to a mares leg, have at it! You should be able to cut to any length that factory offers, as long as the factory version is legal. Cabelas had an exclusive 18.5” version from the factory, so that length should be legal, not to mention the current and past 16” trappers that are fine. Too bad gun laws are made by people with next to zero gun knowledge or common sense…

I’m going to look for .444 ammo before I make a decision, as the vast majority of people polled both here and on Marlin Owners are suggesting that I go with that one. Not surprising considering the hatred of Remlins over there. I am one of the few over there that actually owns a late Remlin, and know that the later ones are in fact, well finished and great shooters.

My smith (who is a friend and in my circle of hunting friends) is also the oldest son of the person with likely the biggest collection of leverguns in western Canada, so I will ask his opinion on which way to go.

[Redthies]

And on legal barrel cut length, is the chamber considered part of the barrel? I think it is, but don’t know legal definitions. I’m sure that definition changes with jurisdiction too.

Those of you that own .444s, what is the barrel length on them? This one is the standard one, not an XLR or P model, although if it were a P, I’d be much happier.

[North Country Gal]

Red, I've also owned both 45-70 and 444 JM Marlins. never owned a Remlin, but I know several local shooters who bought late edition Remlins and love them. No problems at all. There really shouldn't be, anyway, because the 336/1895 action is pretty fool proof.

I loved the 444 Marlin as a shooting round. Much flatter trajectory than the 45-70, for instance. Unfortunately, if you're shooting factory ammo, only, finding 444 factory ammo is going to take more tine and money than it's worth if you plan to do any amount of shooting at all. You'll actually spend more time hunting ammo than actually shooting it. The T4 isn't dead, yet, but it's getting there. Real shame, but that's the reality.

By contrast, I can walk into any local store that sells ammo and find 45-70. It's almost all the 300-350 grain hunting loads, because it's a popular cartridge in our area. If I want to find some of the more traditional 405 grain loads or cowboy loads for my Ruger No. 3, I have to order online.

The Marlin 444s that I owned were all the standard 22" barrel versions. Pretty sure the P was an 18.5" ported.

[Vaquero]

Red the two I have are quite different. The first one is a '87 year model with a 22" micro-groove barrel.
The second one I picked up is the P model, and yes to NCG it is ported and has the ballard rifling.
It is louder then the long barreled one, but is the one I shoot the most.
The '87 SS (sporter safety) not stainless, is scoped and the P wears a peep.

RP

[Redthies]

Red, I've also owned both 45-70 and 444 JM Marlins. never owned a Remlin, but I know several local shooters who bought late edition Remlins and love them. No problems at all. There really shouldn't be, anyway, because the 336/1895 action is pretty fool proof.

I loved the 444 Marlin as a shooting round. Much flatter trajectory than the 45-70, for instance. Unfortunately, if you're shooting factory ammo, only, finding 444 factory ammo is going to take more tine and money than it's worth if you plan to do any amount of shooting at all. You'll actually spend more time hunting ammo than actually shooting it. The T4 isn't dead, yet, but it's getting there. Real shame, but that's the reality.

By contrast, I can walk into any local store that sells ammo and find 45-70. It's almost all the 300-350 grain hunting loads, because it's a popular cartridge in our area. If I want to find some of the more traditional 405 grain loads or cowboy loads for my Ruger No. 3, I have to order online.

As always, you are a wealth of info! Thank you! I used to reload, but since I stopped being an employee 20 years ago, I’ve had no time. I’m leaning towards the .45-70 and will likely have it cut down to 20” as I have zero use for a 26” octagon barrel. I don’t have a gun bearer on my hunts, so I would have to lug the extra 2 pounds of barrel around myself

I’m going to chat with my smith/shop owner about which of the two if either, would be easy to sell before any cuts are made, but either one will be more valuable than a Ruger American…

[Redthies]

Red the two I have are quite different. The first one is a '87 year model with a 22" micro-groove barrel.
The second one I picked up is the P model, and yes to NCG it is ported and has the ballard rifling.
RP

I’m glad you’re along on both here and Marlin Owners to keep me straight!

[Vaquero]

You're welcome buddy, I will try and help as much as possible.
Do you know the years of manufacturing of either?
Like you already know the later years of the Rem. made ones were pretty good.
The friend that cut my 35 had a Remlin 444 that he had chopped down to 19" and it shot quite well.
He also cut down a remlin 308 mx, but I don't remember what length that was.
And he left us a couple years back.

RP

[BigAl52]

Red can you order ammo online and have it shipped to you?

[Redthies]

I’m not sure on year of the .444 but it is a JM. The Remlin is a late 2017, so they had their act together at that point. My “EDC” 336 BL is a 2020 Remlin, and the only issue it has is a 1* cant in the rear dovetail. But I have it scoped, and put a Skinner LoPro in the rear, so it’s hard to tell it’s canted looking through a ghost ring! I disassembled the 336 before I ever put a round through it and used some 800 grit and gun oil and polished all the moving bits. It is now, dare I say, as slick as my Henrys. It shoots exceptionally well for a lever, and fit and finish are top notch. It is an excellent gun.

That’s the long form of “I’m not afraid of a late Remlin”. In my area, SBLs and GBLs are flying off the shelves, so I doubt I’d lower the value much, if any by having the CB professionally shortened to 20” (if that is the legal limit). If I can go shorter, I’d take it down to 18.5” like the JM CBs that Cabellas sold were. I’ll get an answer on that tomorrow.




Al, I can get ammo shipped, but there is only one courier that will ship ammo in Canada and they charge $100 per order, so you end up paying an absolutely obscene amount. I have a couple of friends in the USA that I can get to buy for me, but no USA based sellers will ship to me due to my billing address on my Visa being in Canada, even though I have a warehouse in the US. The other issue is, taking live ammo out of the USA is an ITAR violation and subject to a $1 million dollar fine. Makes Canadian UPS look like saints

[Redthies]

I talked to a couple of people locally today who have extensive lever knowledge (both have 200 plus levers in their collection, one bought his current ranch of 150 acres from selling part of his collection) and both have said in our area, the .45-70 will be worth 30% more and sell 5x faster if I decide to not keep it. They both said there is little to no market for .444s here. It seems like I have had my thoughts confirmed.

If any of you want a nice .444, I’ll put you in touch with the seller!

[Redthies]

So the guy I was going to trade with messages me after going silent for a few days. “Sorry, I have to decline the deal we made, my water heater blew, and I need cash”. Less than a week later he posts a different 7-08 for sale that he “took in a trade”. What a Richard…

[North Country Gal]

Sounds fishy to me. Given the popularity of the 45-70, though, doubt you'll have to search long to find another one. Best of luck.

[Vaquero]

Sorry to read that Red, shouldn't be hard to find another if really want one.

RP

[BigAl52]

Sad people do this. But nothing seems to amaze me anymore. After reading all these posts here Red makes me wanna search out a 444. I need one like I need another hole in my head