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Leverevolution Powder Questions

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Mr. Neutron
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Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mr. Neutron » Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:59 pm

I scored a couple pounds of Hodgdon's Leverevolution powder Monday from the local gun store in Sandy. My wife gave me a gift card for that place, so it worked out well. As a side note, they had quite a few bricks of pistol primers (Large & Small, Magnum and non-Magnum), along with a few bricks Small Rifle stuff. No Large Rifle stuff, but we can be hopeful, huh? Just nice to see more or ANY primers at all on the shelves. Hope this trend continues.

I'm wondering how many of y'all may have tried this powder along with Hornady's 170 grain FP (#3060), or 170 grain FP-style offerings from Speer, Nosler, Sierra, or other manufacturers? And can ya possibly let me know how accurate it was/is, and how much of this powder was stuffed in the case?

I have 3 older reloading manuals from Nosler, Hodgdon's, and Sierra. They're of the age that they don't even list Leverevolution powder. And the loads for my Winchester 748 & Hodgdon's H-335 have quite a bit of either "not listed for this bullet" or large variations of starting and max powder charges for these 2 powders. :?

I've found a load that shows promise with the 170 Hornady FP bullets and Win. 748 powder. I worked up to a charge of 33 grains that showed some promise in the accuracy dept.. I have around a dozen each of more cases loaded up to 33.5 gr. & 34 gr. to try out when some range time becomes available.

But as I said above, I came into this Leverevolution powder, and would like to try it. Bullet availability has kinda "stuck" me with Hornady bullets for now, which isn't a bad thing at all. I have had better luck with Sierra bullets in other rifles, but can't get ahold of any of their 30-30 bullets. Probably won't be able to for awhile. So, I have Hornady's free app on my phone. I then paid $.99 to get their reloading data for the .30-30. I had been looking on other forums for their recipes of LVR powder in .30-30, and it seems to vary a bit as to what folks use. So, I got the reload data from the folks that made my bullets.

And the amount of powder they stuff in a 30-30 case for their 170 gr. FP kinda surprised me. For Leverevolution, they begin with 27.7 grains of powder, and work up in 2.2 grain increments to 36.5 gr.. :shock:

For H-335, they begin 29.3 grains, and go up in around 1.6 gr. increments to 34 gr..

For Win. 748, they start with a charge of 31.4 grains, and go up in 1.7 gr. steps to 36.5 gr.. :o This is several grains higher than my my old manuals have listed for 170 gr. bullets, and a grain or two more up from some online sources like Nosler. The Hornady app, for the .30-30, states that their best test rifle (a Winchester M94 with a 20" barrel) accuracy and uniformity came from Win. 748 powder.

I'm not one to chase velocity figures. I'm after an accurate load first, and then hopefully with enough velocity to work a 170 grain bullet inside an Elk and do some damage. I've only killed just 3 elk in my hunting career, all with a .30-06. A spike walking by at 15 paces, a cow at 40 yards, and my biggest one in Hell's Canyon was at 125 yards. It was the only bull that never knew I was ANYWHERE around, and fell upside down, dead, almost instantly. It never ran. The other two elk (the spike and the cow) were spooked by other hunters or myself, took just a few steps after being shot, and died. So I figure those Sierra 180 grainers at around 2500 fps worked well.

I'm hoping a 170 grain Hornady lauched around a "theoretical" 2000 fps. would work well at the ranges I mentioned above; hopefully 75 yards or less. If I can gain more fps and still match the accuracy I have with my 33 grains of Win 748, I suppose that's "A Good Thing". Somewhere I've seen these bullets need to be moving at 2000 or so fps to work and expand well, but I'm confused as to if muzzle velocity was what they meant. If you calculate muzzle velocity and energy down to, say, 100 yrds., there's probably barely enough speed and energy to do the job on an elk. Dunno if it would expand much at downrange velocities of 1600 fps or not.
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Vaquero » Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:36 pm

Jimmie, I don't chase velocity either, don't even own a chrony. :shock: :lol:
I load and shoot for accuracy. I shoot quite a bit of those 170 gr Sierra bullets in the 30-30's and my Marlin 308 MX.
In the mx with those I use that LVR loaded to a very near max load with some good results.
Can cover a 3 shot group at 75 yds. with a quarter.

I generally use the same bullet in the 30-30's but with IMR3031, which shows a tad better than IMR4198. ;)
I've tested the LVR in it also, seems like the best was around 34.7, but don't hold me to that. as
I'm out of town at the moment so can't get to my notes.

Believe it or not it performs well in the 223 as well.
No published data to support it, but have found it is similar to CFE223.
I tested the CFE in the MX with similar results to the LVR, and why I tried it in the 223's.
That and the fact that I have several lbs. of the LVR on hand.

RP
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mr. Neutron » Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:44 pm

Thanks, Vaquero (Randy okay to use?)!

That helps!

No chronograph here either. I'd rather spend the money for a chrono on primers instead. Velocities and figures are nice for the mathmatical/anal machinist part of my life, but definitely not needed to put dinners on tables. Accuracy wins out every time. One nice thing about the Hornady stats for velocities and such are that they do come from an actual rifle similar to what we shoot. That helps figure real world things like trajectories out better than when different manufacturers use a 24" test barrel.

Wish I could get ahold of some Sierra 170gr flat points. I emailed them awhile back, and the response I got was they may start a production run of them later next year. :(

Well, I've got a lot of tree limbs from our recent storm to pick up on my 2 acres that I mow. That'll give me time as I work to mull over if I wanna use some of my remaining primers for the LVR powder, or just keep playing with the Win. 748. I've kinda proven to myself that my gun prefers 170 grainers to 150s, so I'll stay that course, as far as bullet weight is concerned.
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Vaquero » Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:02 pm

Lol, Randy or RP is just fine.
And yes some prefer one over the other, I like that 748 also.
I was given some some years back and it works well in the 30-30, and surprisingly good in the 6.5 Creed that I picked up earlier this year.
This was back in the summer I believe, a little comparison I did.
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RP
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mags » Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:43 pm

Sorry, can't contribute to this one. I don't reload 170gr.
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mr. Neutron » Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:46 pm

Nice shootin' there, RP!!!! 8-) 8-)

Nice groups all over. Because of the "75' RC" written on the target, were those at 75 yards, or at 75 feet? Really good groups at any distance.....

I'm thinkin' that Marlin likes 170 grainers the best? Have you by any chance tried any of the Hornadys 170s, and if so, how did they group for ya?

Well, Dang it, Mags! Yeah, I think I recall that you pretty much stay with the 150s, don't ya? Have you pushed any of those with the LVR powder?
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Vaquero » Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:06 pm

Mr. Neutron wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:46 pm
Nice shootin' there, RP!!!! 8-) 8-)

Nice groups all over. Because of the "75' RC" written on the target, were those at 75 yards, or at 75 feet? Really good groups at any distance.....

I'm thinkin' that Marlin likes 170 grainers the best? Have you by any chance tried any of the Hornadys 170s, and if so, how did they group for ya?

Well, Dang it, Mags! Yeah, I think I recall that you pretty much stay with the 150s, don't ya? Have you pushed any of those with the LVR powder?
:lol: The '75 is the year of the Marlin, RC is regular carbine.
The distance that day was around 55 yds. as I was shooting from the picnic table in the side yard to the berm in the backyard.
Never tried Hornady's 170's as I have like 4= boxes of the Sierra's, and another 100+ Speer hot cor's that print the same and are very effective on the deer. Not knowing for sure but would think that would perform similar.
I have a store brand Marlin (Westernfield) from the mid 60's that shoots my hand loads just as accurately as that Marlin.
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by 5shot » Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:57 pm

Mr. Neutron
I have nothing to contribute about Leverevolution but did have an interesting experience with 748. I was cooking up loads for Rem 700 Varmint model in .223 for a South Dakota prairie dog trip. This took place 20 some years ago in March and April here in Wisconsin. I had the rifle cooking real well with no pressure signs and little bughole groups.
Memorial day weekend in White River S. Dak was HOT!! Early on in the carnage I noticed I was getting sticky bolt lift and flattened primers. :shock: Then it sunk in...my ammo was sitting in the sun. Luckily I had other rifles along (.22 BR and .22/250 IIRC) but the only way I could use the .223 was to put the ammo the cooler. Upon our return home I took the .223 and a chrono to the range on a warm day. Some ammo was kept in an ice chest and some left in the sun. I can't quote exact numbers now but there was a BIG difference in velocity so 748 was temperature sensitive. These were not looney tune overloads either...book max as I remember. Maybe the composition has changed since the 90's and you'll probably never encounter extremes like this. And....I think Leverevolution might be advertised as temperature insensitive? Just a "for what it's worth".
Also a Randy but to avoid confusion I'll go with 5shot. :D

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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mr. Neutron » Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:24 pm

Nice info to know, 5shot!! Very nice to know.

When I used to shoot the pistol matches with my Kimber 1911, I too can recall in the summers needing to keep the match ammo in a little lunchbox sized cooler. It could evidentally get hot enough sometimes to shift the point of aim a little higher than the gun would normally shoot. Never chronographed the loads myself, so I don't have a number to put on the difference. Some clubs at certain IPSC matches would check our bullet speeds to be sure we were meeting the required power factor. My loads for that .45 auto never had a problem making power.

But I'm gonna check on the Leverevolution temperature stability claim. Thanks for that info, 5shot Randy! Much appreciated!

Vaquero, thanks for clearing me up on the target! Still great shootin', Sir!!!
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mags » Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:08 am

Mr. Neutron wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:46 pm
...
Well, Dang it, Mags! Yeah, I think I recall that you pretty much stay with the 150s, don't ya? Have you pushed any of those with the LVR powder?
Yes I use LVR for the 150s. It's my preference for .30-30. I stopped short of compressed loads though. I try to stay 36.3 - 36.6gr. These work well for plinking the paddles on my shooting tree and for hunting nutria.

I have nothing against 170gr bullets. I just choose not to go there 'cause I have a lot of others reloads I have more interest in.
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mags » Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:12 am

Vaquero wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:02 pm
...
I really enjoy your posts with your rifle pictures and target results. Keep em coming.
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Vaquero » Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:54 am

Thanks Mags, I appreciate the kind words.
My phone took a crash this past year and I lost quite a few of my target pics. :evil:

As it has been mentioned, LVR is a temp. sensitive powder.
When shooting the MX during the hot summer months, I use the CFE loads more often.
But, myself I've not really had an issue, but knew others that did.
5shot, thanks for the info on the 748, I didn't it was a temp. sensitive powder.
I guess most of my usage with it has been in the cooler months.

RP
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mr. Neutron » Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:49 am

Funny how a conversation twists and turns, but this "temp stability vs instability" is interesting stuff to me. In my '06 bolt rifle, I've used the same rounds from 85+ deg. temps during deer season, down to 18 deg. temps for elk hunts. And never gave it much thought. Either of those hunts that season never became a stability issue, because I never had the opportunity to pull a trigger. :roll: ;)

Since I typically find accuracy in various guns BEFORE I get up to any sorta max load, it's probably not much of a concern for me. Also, I've always strived to keep shots short, even if meant not filling a tag. The stalk part of a hunt is much more fun to me, vs. long range shooting -type scenarios. Hence my new devotion to carrying a lever .30-30 for my hunts this year. With my self imposed limits of using iron sights, it's mandatory that I keep my shots at close range. I'd hope that at these short ranges with a well-below-maximum charge, a shifting point of impact (due to temps/pressure) wouldn't be a problem.

I did find a sorta relevant and interesting post by some guys on a long-range shooting message board. These guys get pretty scientific, making extensive use of chronographs and their data. But posts #6 thru #10 are somewhat relevant to our yakkin' here......

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/th ... n.7102847/

Back more on subject, my goal here is to try and find a good, accurate load with either LVR powder, or Win. 748 that will be just fast enough for the 170 Hornady bullet to give good terminal performance. While I've had great luck with the few Elk I've shot with my .30-06 at short ranges, Elk are very tough critters. I've been on one miserable hunt trying to track what was supposed to be a "well-hit" elk with a long shot from a Remington 7mm Mag. We followed this bull up a mountain for over a mile, finding spotty blood now and then, until we were in butt deep snow, and ran outta daylight. The elk just kept going, and we lost that bull. My cousin & I got lost walking back, and it was a really cold, long hike for us until we found the road near 11 pm. I'd rather not repeat that scenario again if I can help it. I'm too old for that crap. :mrgreen:

Some would say "Just carry the '06, and quit worrying.". I get that, but I really enjoy the .30-30 and the rifle for it. Several older guys in my gun club have killed Elk with the .30-30. It just needs to be on ".30-30 terms". I didn't wanna beat myself up with a .45-70 (due to fairly recent rotator cuff surgery in right shoulder), and no used ones were available to me locally that I liked when I was shopping late last summer. So, I really wanna enjoy the .30-30, even if it might not be what some consider enough gun.
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mr. Neutron » Thu Jun 15, 2023 10:00 pm

I had kinda decided I wouldn't shoot reloads for awhile in the interest of not wanting to "waste" reloading components until after I got my cataracts fixed. But the way the Dr. has the surgeries and 2 post-op appointments for each eye, the last eye won't be done until just a few days before hunting season. I dunno why I worry about this, because both of my eyes are usually shut when I shoot, but...... :geek: :shock: I couldn't keep myself away from my messy loading bench, so I broke my promise to myself to not shoot reloads for awhile. I've been playing with different powders (Win. 748 and LEVERevolution), different charges of those, and 2 different Hornady .30-30 bullets (170gr FP & 150gr RN). Hornadys are not a bad bullet at all, and they're basically all I've been able to find locally. I'd love to try some Sierra 30-30 bullets, or Speer, or maybe even Nosler. But I simply can't find any on a shelf close to home. So, Hornadys are it for now..... ;)

Short version is this:

With the bullets, powders, and components I have to work with, my "new" H009BG rifle seems to do okay with 150 grain bullets, and LVR powder. My steel H009 seems like it prefers 170s, with Win 748 at a 32 gr. charge weight.

Today's range trip netted these groups with a Hornady #3035 150gr bullet, a LVR charge of 36.5 grains, and a Remington 9 & 1/2 Large Rifle Magnum Primer. Even though I've been taught NOT to mix brands of cases, they were mixed bunch anyway, using Hornady, Federal, & Remington brass. It's all a big experiment....... :shock:

At 25 yards:

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There are actually only 4 shots from this group; one of the target pasters at 5 o'clock fell off, making it look as if I fired 5 shots. I guess this about a one inch group???? :?



And then at 100 yards:

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I was really happy with this group. I have never shot a better group at 100 yds. with open sights (Skinner peep in back, and a Skinner brass Patridge post up front). It measured around 1.7" with my calipers. It's a few inches to the conservative right of center at a hunnert, but that's just my political leaning there, I think. :lol:

I'm planning on loading up some more of these and hopeful it can be duplicated, or somewhat close. If so, this will likely be the recipe I settle on. And if I can duplicate these groups again, as friends and family, I want y'all to call BS on me if/when I pull the "Old Cataract Eyes/Iron Sights" card again. :mrgreen: :geek: :ugeek: :shock:
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mags » Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:53 pm

Mr. Neutron wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2023 10:00 pm
... Hornady #3035 150gr bullet, a LVR charge of 36.5 grains, ... Even though I've been taught NOT to mix brands of cases, they were mixed bunch anyway,
...
Same recipe here. Though I'm not real happy with the amount of copper build up from the #3035 bullets. I have a bunch of reloads with CFE223 (36.5gr) ready to test to see if that reduces copper build up. My .30-30 brass is mixed brands as well.

Good shooting results there. So no more excuses on the eyes.
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mr. Neutron » Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:27 am

Mags wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:53 pm
Same recipe here. Though I'm not real happy with the amount of copper build up from the #3035 bullets. I have a bunch of reloads with CFE223 (36.5gr) ready to test to see if that reduces copper build up. My .30-30 brass is mixed brands as well.

Good shooting results there. So no more excuses on the eyes.
I did indeed pull my charge level of LEVERevolution from a post by you above, as well as couple of other places on the interwebs. But I'm really grateful you posted that above. It helped me a bunch, especially since Hornady listed no loads for their 150gr. bullet using LEVERevolution. Be anxious to hear how the CFE223 works out for copper buildup for ya. Isn't that a currently a "hard-to-get" powder??

Yeah, I almost thought about not posting this after all my whining about my cataracts, hee hee. Thanks for the "tough love" there, Mags!!! That's appreciated even more! :)
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Vaquero » Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:01 am

Don't know if you saw my post the other day about the Speer 170 gr Hot cor's?
But Midsouth Shooter Supply has or had some of those for sale at $29.60 per 100.
I've used both those and the Sierra 170 Pro hunters with great results in accuracy and performance.

RP
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mr. Neutron » Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:16 pm

Geez, Randy, wish I'd seen that! I just ordered a couple pounds of powder from those guys a few days ago, and that was my "discretionary spending" for the month, hee hee. :lol: If I can, I might play the "Father's Day Gift for myself" card, and try for a hundred of those. My Steel H009G likes the 170s.......

And thanks for the opinion on the Hot Cors. I really like it when someone can report on bullet performance. ;)
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mags » Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:36 pm

Mr. Neutron wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:27 am
... Be anxious to hear how the CFE223 works out for copper buildup for ya. Isn't that a currently a "hard-to-get" powder??
...
Maybe. What I have I bought a while back. I did see a pound on the shelf at Sportsmans yesterday.
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Re: Leverevolution Powder Questions

Post by Mags » Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:17 pm

Mr. Neutron wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:27 am
...[CFE223] Isn't that a currently a "hard-to-get" powder??
...
Update. Was back in the Sportsmans neighborhood yesterday. Bought more Large Pistol Primers and checked on the CFE223. There was at least 6 1lb bottles on the shelf.
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