45c and 38/357 subsonic loads

[DsGrouse]

I'll have to see if i can find the extreme bullet and a bit of red dot. The Clean shot seems to be consistent (SD) wise, as long as my powder drops are consistent. I did pick up two pounds of Unique, and it will be my next one to test.

Looking at the powder for this load, they should come in around 975 to 1000 fps for the 240 to the 265 grains loads, the 285 to 315s i am hoping will come in at 900 to 975 fps.

[fortyshooter]

Would like to find a plated 300 gr flat nose bullet but Xtreme only has it in round nose and run that around 900 FPS. Like the plated to keep the lead build up out of the suppressor.

[DsGrouse]

Do you have a rotary tumbler? Even a corn media one? The rugged should come apart for cleaning. Drop the baffles in, and let it do the work. I've done that on my four Ghost-M 45's and my Form 1 45. It works quickly and efficiently, usually a little less than an hour if you have steel pins.

[fortyshooter]

Do you have a rotary tumbler? Even a corn media one? The rugged should come apart for cleaning. Drop the baffles in, and let it do the work. I've done that on my four Ghost-M 45's and my Form 1 45. It works quickly and efficiently, usually a little less than an hour if you have steel pins.

Silencer Central says to be careful not to remove the anodizing coating off the baffles. I just get the heavy carbon crud out.

[DsGrouse]

You have the obsidian 45?

This is from rugged

"Obsidian45 baffles are machined from 17-4 Stainless Steel barstock, with two indexing tabs for proper alignment. With serviceability in mind the Obsidian baffles create a gas seal that virtually eliminates carbon build up between the baffles and tube."

If the baffles are stainless then there is no anadizing on them. If they are aluminum, i agree, just knock the chunks off. I scrub my tube and end caps with a nylon brush and call them good. But stainless baffles, those are good to go in a tumbler.

[TheBackyardRange]

I wouldn’t use Bullseye or TiteGroup in a low pressure cartridge like 45 Colt from a rifle. It’s not even optimal in most magnums from a rifle. I’m using a max load of Unique with 250gr Berry’s and coated in mine, pushing 1250 fps from a 20” barrel. That same load from a 5.5” Blackhawk is running 1000fps with an average 10fps maximum variation over 5 shots. That load can be easily slowed down. It slower burning than those other two and is less likely to lose too much pressure before reaching the end of the barrel.

[DsGrouse]

I wouldn’t use Bullseye or TiteGroup in a low pressure cartridge like 45 Colt from a rifle. It’s not even optimal in most magnums from a rifle. I’m using a max load of Unique with 250gr Berry’s and coated in mine, pushing 1250 fps from a 20” barrel. That same load from a 5.5” Blackhawk is running 1000fps with an average 10fps maximum variation over 5 shots. That load can be easily slowed down. It slower burning than those other two and is less likely to lose too much pressure before reaching the end of the barrel.

I finally got my hands on 2lbs of unique last week. It is my next powder to try. In most of my load manuals, titegroup shows up well in the rifle loads. Clean shot is a lovex powder, and pairs burn rate-wise with bullseye and tigh group. The key thing for me is subsonic. I don't want to go over about 950-975 fps.

We'll see how the rest of the updated loads work. I loaded about half my 38spl loads last night. Maybe Friday i can get out and repeat my testing.

[TheBackyardRange]

I wouldn’t use Bullseye or TiteGroup in a low pressure cartridge like 45 Colt from a rifle. It’s not even optimal in most magnums from a rifle. I’m using a max load of Unique with 250gr Berry’s and coated in mine, pushing 1250 fps from a 20” barrel. That same load from a 5.5” Blackhawk is running 1000fps with an average 10fps maximum variation over 5 shots. That load can be easily slowed down. It slower burning than those other two and is less likely to lose too much pressure before reaching the end of the barrel.

I finally got my hands on 2lbs of unique last week. It is my next powder to try. In most of my load manuals, titegroup shows up well in the rifle loads. Clean shot is a lovex powder, and pairs burn rate-wise with bullseye and tigh group. The key thing for me is subsonic. I don't want to go over about 950-975 fps.

We'll see how the rest of the updated loads work. I loaded about half my 38spl loads last night. Maybe Friday i can get out and repeat my testing.

TiteGroup is an extremely fast burning powder. Its ideal for short barrel applications because of the way it burns. Its real explosive right off the bat and loses steam quickly. To give you an idea, there is a 600-700 fps difference between a max TiteGroup load and a Lil Gun load using 240gr bullets in 44 mag and a 20" barrel. Its because the Lil Gun is a less violent burn in the beginning and a more steady long lasting expansion throughout the length of the barrel. Refer to the chart in the link below to find where powders lie in the burn rate chart. The slower the burn rate, the better in a rifle it will likely perform.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/42/92/d6/4292 ... 3ac926.jpg

That said, Lil gun is not ideal for your application because its very case volume sensitive. You could not load it down to meet your velocities without it becoming very unstable. That why I suggested Unique. With its mid level burn rate and rate and load range, you should be able to meet the requirement.

[DsGrouse]

Thanks for that. I've got a few similar burn rate tables.

[TheBackyardRange]

I believe sound barrier is 1126fps at 60 degrees at sea level. Its 1096 fps at 5,000 ft above sea level. As long as you keep it under 1,100 fps, you’ll be fine in most places. Probably be good to figure out what your elevation is.

[DsGrouse]

When you push past about 975, you end up with the bullet waffling at the sound barrier. It throws accuracy considerably off. If you've done much PCP air rifle/pellet rifle shooting, you can actually see this effect starting at 950fps when the skirt of a pellet starts catching the light as it makes its way through the air.

For suppressed rifles shooting suppressed rounds, it makes a difference, again, you can see this in shooting good subsonic 22lr's. the more they are above 975, your groups will open up. That is because the bullet is trying to push through the sound barrier.

So, 950 to 975 is pretty much the magic number to aim for. You get the most velocity, and the best chance at accuracy. If i can drop 265, 280, 300, 315 grain rounds at 975 i will be quite happy.

[TheBackyardRange]

You might see that with lighter, slimmer bullets but I have doubts you will see that with a 250gr+ 45 bullet. Those bullets tend to be much more stable crossing the transonic barrier. 9mm and under, I try to stay away from breaking the barrier unless I am over 1250fps. Anything bigger than that, I don't worry about it. 22 vs 45 Its kind of the difference between throwing an arrow vs throwing a rock. One is far more susceptible to air disturbance than the other.

[DsGrouse]

Not a great day on the range. Out of my many test loads, I had 2 good groups and 3 groups I think I can start working with. Now that I have unique, I may swap over to work with that. I have a new scale on the way, as in the middle of reloading last night it started to miss read weights. I will wait until it gets here before i start in on another attempt.

[Rifletom]

Not a great day on the range. Out of my many test loads, I had 2 good groups and 3 groups I think I can start working with. Now that I have unique, I may swap over to work with that. I have a new scale on the way, as in the middle of reloading last night it started to miss read weights. I will wait until it gets here before i start in on another attempt.

Another digital or a good beam type scale?

[DsGrouse]

I didn't only pick up a scale. I've liked my lee pro 1k for 9 and 45. It seems well enough for those two, but the long straight wall cases of 38,357 and 45c seem to flex the shell plate quite a bit. I get inconsistent bullet seating and crimping. As of now I am sizing in a separate step, seating in another on my app, and crimping back on the pro 1k.

It isn't really suited for the kind of precision I am looking for. My 9, 40, 357 sig, 45 it does well with. I can crank out a couple of hundred rounds without much fuss. But, I'm not finding a solution to my accuracy problems.

I picked up a layman brass smith 8 station turret press. I am hoping the single ram, and the single die station it activates provide for more stability and less, for the lack of a better word, flex in the unit. It has good reviews, and I hope it helps me nail down some of the problems I've been doing my best to deal with.

As for the scale, I picked up a rcbs charge master. Yes, it is digital, but it has good reviews. The platten and the load cells supposedly can handle the warmer temperatures that my room usually has. For 9,40, 45, 357 sig, I will probably still use my powder through the expansion dropper. It's pretty close to the powders I normally use. The RCBS will be for my 38/45c,300blk 308 subsonic loads I put together. Those two pretty much tapped me out. Next paycheck I'll likely pick up an analog scale for checking the lee powder dropper i have.

[TheBackyardRange]

It’s good to have an extra scale on hand to double check. I got a little battery powered pocket scale for quick checks. It starts misweighing when batteries start getting low. Also have an Frankford Arsenal intellidropper for precision loading.

[DsGrouse]

Well, most of the gear is here; I am waiting on redding dies for 45c and 38spl.
The charge master supreme took a bit to get it to sync with my phone. It can be used without my phone easily. I wanted to use my phone as a way to isolate my actions from the bench the machine is on.

I checked its throw over the last 100 rounds of 45c and 38 spl. I never had one display differently on my other lyman scale. The unit did throw three over's in those two hundred rounds. Most of its mistakes were under, but when checking the drop with the lyman electronic scale it was accurate enough. The worst under-through that I saw was less than .1 grain. both scales registered 6.1 and not the 6.2 of the throw. a tiny bit of trickling and it read 6.2



The app has a little trickle button that allows you a 1/16th of a turn of the dispensing tube.

Nit-picking, Fine powder like this clean shot seems to bounce out of this little mettle tray. I had to watch closely, but the super fine stuff can bounce and fall on the area around the platten. in the couple hundred rounds, i had to sweep the area a couple of times. The amount spilled never reached .1 grain.

The lyman t8 set up with 45c and 38 spl dies

I did not set up the primer station, as I prefer to prime and decap on my app as two separate steps.
Set up was easy, the turret offers a pretty simple workflow, and I feel as if I had much fewer machine-induced errors. I had three errors that are my own fault, but hey, I'll own those.

What do I mean by errors? Well, the brass is all the same, same length, and ran through the same sizing die. On the lee, I would get variations in seating depth and crimp across the board. It always drove me nuts. if I set one load for 1.595, it might run from 1.58 to 1.605. It was annoyingly vague. The feel of the lee, when doing these long straight walled cases, had a lot of flex. No matter how much I tightened things down, the shell plates would still rock and wiggle in the reloading process.

This includes when I ran the plate full and when I separated each step out individually. I was not getting the consistency in seating and crimp that I wished for. Maybe, I need more; It will do, attitude, but that isn't me. Being new to reloading, I am trying to narrow down as much inconsistency as possible.

So, the T8 seemed to cure all that; sizing, flaring, seating, and crimp seem very consistent. Most of the cases are loading at +- .03, according to my calipers.

So what did I do? Well, I took my loads from last go around and added 0.2ths of a grain. I think may help many of these loads still reach that 950-975 fps range. With the more consistent loading, I hope the accuracy will improve. I'm going to give TBR's recommendation a try and bring them all up as close as I can to 1000fps. So I added a second load of 0.4ths of a grain. For a number of the 38's, this was the max recommended load. for the 45c, I have some more room left if I need it.

38spl,

45colt


Wish me luck. If I do not see the accuracy I want, I will change to unique. If I see significant improvement in accuracy, I will likely play with velocity and then seating depth first.

[fortyshooter]

Try 6.0 grain Red Dot with 250-255 gr. 45 Colt and see how it shoots. As far as seating depth differences it can vary if bullet OAL varies.

For what I do with 45 44 and 357 few thousandth differences in COL doesn't seem to hurt anything.

[DsGrouse]

I don't have any red dot as of now. I've cfe pistol, bullseye, tightgroup, longshot, clean shot, and 2lbs of unique that I will try if clean shot doesn't give me the results I am looking for. This press is considerably more consistent in the seating depth, and crimping than the lee. It's noticeable. I am sure a lot of this is my inexperience. It is part of the learning process. Hopefully, i can narrow down a series of good loads to use.

No testing today, as it will be overcast and nasty. I've too many loads to test to set everything up for only 10min of shooting before it starts pissing rain on me.

[Rifletom]

forty got me going on Red Dot for the .45 Colt. It works well, very well. Hopefully you can get your hands on some soon.