45c and 38/357 subsonic loads

[DsGrouse]

For some reason, i can't find where I set aside some load data I squirreled away. I had a few loads to try up for my new long shot powder.

I'm trying to keep them subsonic in my henry big boy x. does anyone know where I can find a good list of subsonic 45c loads out of a rifle.

[fortyshooter]

Do you have a chrono? Keep the loads less than 1000 FPS and load for best accuracy. Haven't tried Longshot.

[Vaquero]

No help here either, I've never used it period.
Looking in a new Hodgdon manual, the only mention of Longshot is in the Ruger only section that I'm seeing.

RP

[Vaquero]

Here is what I found.

20220425_171149.jpg (96.99 KiB) Viewed 3254 times

RP

[Rifletom]

The ONLY thing I could find was Hornady book #8 for the FTX load, But, that's a whole different animal. Could be a tough one.

[wingnut]

OP, from Here:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?t ... ta.818081/

Remember, your Rossi is somewhat stronger than a Colt S/A which is the standard for published data. I personally think that LongShot will likely give you near transonic velocities. Hodgdon published data (Ruger/TC data) shows a 300gr Speer JFN from a 7.5"bbl with 11.2gr LongShot giving 1,005fps. Max is 12.5 for 1,136 which is well above supersonic. Too fast for your purposes. But it gives you the picture of how much leeway you have.

My favorite in a 45C BBS (20 inch bbl) is a 405 grain .458 coated lead flat nose sized (via a Lee sizing die) to .452 loaded with 9.6g TrailBoss with an OAL of 1.645" and a firm crimp for about 1010 FPS.

[DsGrouse]

I appreciate all the help. Somewhere I thought I had set aside a couple of tables where some subsonic longshot loads were listed. Somehow I must be mistaken.

Maybe I mistook my notes and meant trail boss. I'm not usually that scatterbrained. I'll keep my eye out for them.

Finding a fast enough burning powder right now is a trial. I found a few guys doing what i want to do, and they are using clean shot. I looked up clean shots load data, and it seems to fit the bill. I've got a couple of pounds headed my way.

[fortyshooter]

Red Dot might work well too. I'm thinking of getting the barrel on my 45 Colt Ranch Hand threaded for suppressor use so might not be much trouble keeping sub speeds with 8 inch barrel.

[DsGrouse]

I think i figured out part of the issue. I loaded up some of the unsized (supposed 452 ) cast lead 250 rounds, and 250 grain rounds I ran through a 452 sizer.

The lead rounds with 7 grains of bullseye were pretty consistent velocity-wise. Accuracy was still atrocious, sized and unsized came up with about 8" groups of 5 shots.

I picked up some berrry's 250fp .452, loaded them to the same 7.0 grains of bullseye seated to 1.6. Same as the lead.

the berry's velocity



A trio of groups from the ammo.

I pulled the first shot off the target. Put the next two on the right. The final two were after adjusting the scope.


Second group is the blue dots. Third group are the red dots.


I have some 250grn xtp I want to try next. I am waiting for some clean shot powder coming. I am hoping that will allow me to bring the gun down to 975-1000 fps for use with the can.

[fortyshooter]

Yep the 250 gr. XTP just might do it for you!

[DsGrouse]

Does anyone have a favorite 265 to 300 grain jacketed bullet that they use?

[wingnut]

Does anyone have a favorite 265 to 300 grain jacketed bullet that they use?

See my post:

https://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=12910

[fortyshooter]

I saw that and that is a hot one! That would be what like 1200-1300 FPS out of a 5-6 inch revolver? Is that a Ruger/Marlin load?

[wingnut]

I saw that and that is a hot one! That would be what like 1200-1300 FPS out of a 5-6 inch revolver? Is that a Ruger/Marlin load?

Of course its a hot 1, +P.

It was first developed for a 10 inch T/C years ago. ~1300 fps but after 3-4 shots, strong hand paralysis/numbness would set-in. Works well in my BBS. YMMV.

Remember, OP asked about bullet not load. Speed can easily be lowered.

[DsGrouse]

so an update. Cleanshot was the hands-down winner for today. I tried the same ammo and coal with titegroup and bullseye.

5.7grns of cleanshot seems to be a good starting load with the berry's 250 grain plated. I averaged 843 fps and had a decent group.
the next best group was Hornaday 250 grain HP. but the average fps was pretty low at 629, so, defiantly need to bring the speed up a bit.

The lead 250 grain bulk pack I have is trash. It has not performed in any of the powders I have. Even when resizing it. With cleanshot it averaged 870 fps but a 5inch group. The two other powders ranged from 8 to 13-inch groups.

Sig/sierra 230grn hp averaged 706 fps and a 4-inch group.

berry's 250grn plated hp averaged 844, but I didn't record the group. I am guessing out of the 10 shots it was over 5 inches.

Bullseye at 7 grains is over the edge of 1100fps, using any of the 250grain bullets I had.

I did get a good group with the bullseye a 10-shot group at about an inch and a half. Berrys plated 250 FP again.

The tight group I loaded with only the 250grain bulk pack LFP I have. Velocities were consistent but the groups were horrendous.
I don't know what I am going to do with these bullets, 45 acp maybe, because they do not work for crap in my FA83 or in the henry.

So for now Cleanshot it may be, and 250grn berry's plated. I can play with the tension of the crimp, charge, and sizing to see where I land. I have about 120fps to gain with the clean shot loads.

I also have all those nice bullets from mats to give a go through.

[DsGrouse]

Back at it with my 45 colt today.

This is the best group so far.


This group is a mix of two bullet types. The top, next three down and the one near the tip of the triangle are one 5 shot group. The furthest left and two furthest right are part of the other group.

I was beginning to think i sucked at shooting rifles. All of my loads were 4 to 15 inch groups.

These bullets are cast performance 265grn gas checked LBT style heat treated solids.



The velocities were good, i can bump it up about 100fps I think.


My 357/38 spl went a little differently.

I need more than the minimum in the book for extreme 158 plated

[Rifletom]

Which were the bullets that flat plain wouldn't work? I'm using T & B coated and Missouri coated 250gr rnfp with Unique, Universal and Red Dot.
These combos work well at 1,000+ MV in my Henry's and around 840 MV in my handguns. All .45 Colt.

[DsGrouse]

Which were the bullets that flat plain wouldn't work? I'm using T & B coated and Missouri coated 250gr rnfp with Unique, Universal and Red Dot.
These combos work well at 1,000+ MV in my Henry's and around 840 MV in my handguns. All .45 Colt.

In short all of them. 50 yard groups ranging from 5-13 inches. save for the one I showed. I suspect that I need to up the velocity a little bit. some were in pretty low. I would like them between 950 and 975. I am loading these to shoot suppressed. so, going over 1k, has some issues. I want to find quiet hard-hitting rounds.

[DsGrouse]

Well, I worked the loads up 2 tenths of a grain. I added a bit more of the crimp. We will see if this helps settle things down.

I have an electronic lyman scale. I think in my office, the temperature variations are causing the scale to slide. I pulled the unfired rounds, and what I would have sworn was 5.7 grains of clean shot ranged from 5.3 to 5.7. I check every load on a scale, so scale slide is the only thing I can come up with.

I've never had my powder measure throw more than .1 grains +- once I get it dialed in, but as I said, I do weigh every drop. I know I made adjustments via the powder measure as the scale slid. I'm suspecting this is why my SD's are all over the place on some of the loads.

I moved the scale to my second work bench. I leveled it, zero'd it with the wind hood, and weighed all these rounds out with the wind hood on. I am hoping this helps with the consistency of the loads.
We shall see.

If this doesn't work, I will probably look at an electronic dispensing scale. Yes they are prone to slide also, but the consistency might be better across the platform. From what i am reading, most scales need a lot longer to acclimate in a room that is over 65F. if the room swings up and down in temp, then you will need to make adjustments for the load cell during reloading and go through the calibration process again.

[fortyshooter]

Still liking that 255 gr. Xtreme bullet with 6 gr. of Red Dot. Shoots really well and of course quiet as a Red Rider BB rifle out the X Model 45