Help Figuring out light strikes?

[Alex]

Took the Henry out again today. Its only its second outing but .. I still love it and it is a hoot. I have had NO problems shooting factory rounds. Since its return from Henry it eats every Factory round I use. I used 125gr Federal and remington HTP both SJHP and SJSP. No problem

My reloads on the other hand ... About 1 in every 3 fails to fire on the first strike but I did manage to get two to fire after cocking the hammer and hitting it again.

I am fine if I just have to use Factory in the henry but I load a lot of ammo for my revolvers and would love to be able to use those reloads in the Henry.
So i am hoping .. someone can tell me what I may be doing wrong. I will add I have been reloading about 2 years and have shot at least 5000 of my own reloads in other guns.

Here is some relevant info.

These were loaded with Winchester Small Magnum primers
This brass has been reloaded probably over 5 times but under 10.
I am using a lee Classic single stage press and seat the primers with the little flip out arm thing that goes on the ram.
I can fire and have fired these same rounds religiously through my revolvers without ever having a problem.

I took a pic of the Brass that fired and of the rounds that didnt. The fired brass looks like a nice strike. The unfired you can see only has a very small dent. Can it be that I loaded that brass to many times and the primer pocket is wallowed out allowing the primers to seat deeper or ???

Wish there was a shrug emoji because .. I just dont have enough experience to diagnose it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

There are larger pix at the links. The top row are the reloads. The bottom row has a reload on the left, then 2 Rem 158gr and 1 Fed 125gr





http://www.boriqualeather.com/stuff/Hen ... 2%20lg.JPG

http://www.boriqualeather.com/stuff/Hen ... s%20lg.JPG

[Mistered]

A couple things.....
Maybe just coincidence but three of your light strikes are SIG stamped brass.

Are you using small PISTOL primers? You say 'Winchester Small Magnum primers' but did not specify small PISTOL or RIFLE.

How are you cleaning your brass prior to reloading ?

Have you removed your bolt and inspected the firing pin (OUT of the bolt) for any issues with it?

Also the R-P brass misfire appears to have a primer seated deeper than it should be. It's definitely deeper than what is normal seating depth.

[BigAl52]

Agree with Ed and I might also go get 100 new pieces of brass load them up and see if it occurs.

[Mistered]

I might also go get 100 new pieces of brass load them up and see if it occurs.

I agree with this.

OR at least separate out say 50 of KNOWN reloads that fired, reload them ONLY and see what happens.

[Shakey Jake]

Not trying to step on toes but it does seem the primers are seated a bit deep. Remington primers are a litttle softer than Winchester, Federal, or CCI. I have to use Remington primers for one of my Sig P229 9mm's in order to make sure it fires every round. Secondly you might think about using a primer pocket cleaner if you don't already use one.
Jake

[Alex]

Jake I was actually thinking about a pocket cleaner!

So .. I haven't pulled the bolt to examine the firing pin just yet because it fires fine with factory ammo .... and while I have done a fair amount of tabletop gunsmithing I am just not ready yet to pull apart the henry.

I use a dry tumbler with 50/50 walnut and corn cob with a smidge of nufinish and half a dryer sheet. I do it before I pull the primers.

This brass is admittedly heavily stepped on but not nearly as much as my 38 brass!

I have 2 boxes of factory ammo inbound. I could set that brass aside so I know it's once fired or should I buy some new starline?

The primers are small mag Winchester pistol primers. My wife thought she could see an angle to the primers. Maybe the pockets are cruddy?

[Mistered]

Since you have ammo on the way shoot it and if no problems set that brass aside for your reloads.

Start depriming BEFORE you tumble.

Double check your priming set up. Make sure the primer 'ram' enters the pocket smoothly and without catching on the edge. Also when you do seat primers just firm pressure is all that is needed - don't 'overdo' it.

Actually in reality you could just prime the brass and test it without a complete loading. Just pop off the primed brass. If say 10-15 fire off go ahead and reload the rest conventionally and see what happens. Cheaper to fire just primers than complert rounds!

[JEBar]

if the primer pockets have a buildup sufficient to prevent the primer from being fully seated, some of the force from the firing pin can fully seat the primer .... the imprint will be light .... as a result, some will fire on the second strike

[Alex]

Since you have ammo on the way shoot it and if no problems set that brass aside for your reloads.

Start depriming BEFORE you tumble.

Double check your priming set up. Make sure the primer 'ram' enters the pocket smoothly and without catching on the edge. Also when you do seat primers just firm pressure is all that is needed - don't 'overdo' it.

Actually in reality you could just prime the brass and test it without a complete loading. Just pop off the primed brass. If say 10-15 fire off go ahead and reload the rest conventionally and see what happens. Cheaper to fire just primers than complert rounds!

Sounds good! Now I deprime with the resizing die. If I deprime this way can I forgo resizing again or do I still have to resize again after tumbling. Seems like a silly question but ?

Oh and I have been mashing those primers in with a good amount of force. I will try not being a gorilla on a few.

Is tumbling with primers out enough to clean the pocket. I have seen some hand tools for cleaning the pocket

[Alex]

Here is what I am using

https://leeprecision.com/classic-cast-press.html

[Mistered]

Deprime, size & flare THEN into the tumbler. No need to re-do anything.

Lighten up on the priming - AND think about moving on to a hand priming system.

Check your primer pockets AFTER tumbling to make sure a significant amount of the buildup (if any) is gone and no buildup is remaining.

If you decide to just test primers after resizing no need to bell or flare the brass. Just size, tumble, prime and see what happens!

[Alex]

Thank you everyone. I will wait to shoot off the new ammo I have coming, set it aside and then send it through the deprime and resize die before tumbling. I will be sure to report back and again thank you!

Mister thank you for all your advice. I have a buddy that swears by the hand primer. I guess you can get more feel on pressure over the 2 foot lever

[Mistered]

Does you press have primer FEED system or do you have to place primers in singly?

[Alex]

Does you press have primer FEED system or do you have to place primers in singly?

I place each primer individually. There is a small attachment that goes on the ram

[CT_Shooter]

Alex, I also think you may be seating the primers on those rounds too deep, as Jake suggested. I once did that with 50 rounds early in my reloading experience and the result was exactly what you describe, light strikes that did not fire the first time and maybe not after a second time. For those, I pushed hard on the handle of the hand primer, ignoring the "feel" that the primer had been properly set and pushing it as far as it would go. It was a mistake I haven't repeated.

You are getting lots of advice about what to do. Let me just add a little more to that soup.

Like you, I use a dry tumbler with walnut shells (adding NuFinish and mineral spirits about every ten times or so) before I decap and resize, which I do immediately after tumbling. And, while I have one, I haven't used the pocket cleaner in the last thousands of rounds because it has never actually been necessary. Finally, after decapping, I immediately use a Lee hand primer to prime the cases and store them until I need to reload.

Good luck. Keep us posted about what you learn.

[Alex]

Alright guys and gals Today was range day..

Following advice here and some PM's I decided to try a couple of things. I didn't use once fired brass but the brass I used wasn't used more than twice and it was tumbled with the primers still installed.

I was using Winchester primers before and I noticed 2 things. One is that they would sometimes be difficult to install as if they may not be round enough or ... whatever the case .. sometimes I had to kind of feel around to get a good seat. Second .. which I think may have been my own doing ...when looking at my unfired .357 rounds the installed primers looked flat and they were definitely set below the surface of the rest of the brass. I was installing them too vigorously!

I had just run out of those primers and used instead CCI primers. First .. they seemed to just suck right into the primer pocket with very little effort or finesse on my part.Second I made very sure that I was not arm wrestling the primers in and once they popped into place I moved on and didnt set them like I was trying to install Dynamite in granite. A little push and they popped in and I stopped there. I was certainly applying far more pressure before I got advice from Mistered!

The primer on these rounds when completed has a nice convex shape and the height of the highest point was even with the surrounding brass.

So I loaded up 50 rounds with 6.9 gr of hp38 under a 158 gr Coated LSWC and of all 50 .. only one didnt fire and it fired on my second hit.

Very much different than what was happening where I couldn't get through a tube with at least 2 light strikes!!

Thank you everyone .. I have now gotten the formula to use my reloads and .. oh .. damn that henry is fun to shoot!!

[BigAl52]

Curious what brand of brass is it you had that was once fired?

[Alex]

Curious what brand of brass is it you had that was once fired?

I guess about 2/3 was sigarms and the rest Remington. The sig brass is nice sturdy stuff!

[Hatchdog]

Happy to hear you are getting the problem worked out. As others mentioned take a look at a hand type priming tool. Not only do you get the feel of the primer seating in the pocket also the hand tools have a tray feed. You can put 100 primers in the tray, give it a shake to orient the primers and prime away. Much quicker than a ram primer tool and a better feel too. When I load on my single stage press I always use my Lee Auto-prime, not the ram primer.

[Alex]

Happy to hear you are getting the problem worked out. As others mentioned take a look at a hand type priming tool. Not only do you get the feel of the primer seating in the pocket also the hand tools have a tray feed. You can put 100 primers in the tray, give it a shake to orient the primers and prime away. Much quicker than a ram primer tool and a better feel too. When I load on my single stage press I always use my Lee Auto-prime, not the ram primer.

I am up in the air on whether to get the lee hand primer or the Bench primer. Neither is prohibitively expensive but the bench primer looks like it might be more comfortable to use over say 200-300 rds which is my limit when I sit down to reload. Of course .. the hand primer can go in my reloading drawer and give a touch better feel??

Edited to add some info for other novice reloaders.
I had never thought much about primer depth. I just mashed the primers in with the ram. After a little research I found that the sweet range is .002-.005 and not more than .008. So I took out my .357 that I had been making for over a year and worked in my revolvers but not in my Henry, I took out what was left of my reloads that worked perfectly in my Henry and I took out some factory ammo and ... my caliper.

I took the measurements several times and what I got was .. the Remington factory ammo was consistently .005 below the brass. The three rounds I had left of the working reloads were .000, .005, .008 and my old stuff that was giving my fits .045. That is a significant difference and what was causing my issues.
Alex