.44 mag vs .45-70

[Redthies]

Good day gents. I’m considering parting ways with my .45-70 Marlin and replacing it with a Henry (of course!) Big Boy CCH in .44 mag. My only question is to those that own both caliber in lever guns... Is there noticeably less recoil out of the .44? I have managed to really screw up my rotator cuff on my right shoulder, and have to be careful with how much I beat it up. I rarely shot the .45-70 before I hurt myself, and find it unlikely it will get any extra use now that I’m sensitive to recoil. I’ve been shooting Federal 300 grain and Hornady 325 grain rounds. My .44 mag experience is only in my Ruger Carbine, shooting 225 grain Hornady and 180 grain Remington rounds. I see a Hornady does a 300 grain SJHP round in .44 too.

Thoughts? Pics of the two:

[tractortad]

We shoot Federal 240g JHP our of our Henry 44Mag rifles and we shoot Winchester 300g JHP out of our Marlin 1895's. The 1895 Marlins kick harder than the 44Mag Henry's - especially the little Marlin 1895CBA - that thing really kicks. I think you will find the recoil on a 7.84lb Henry 44Mag CCH to be less than your 7lb 1895GS Marlin, but not by a whole lot. Henry 44Mag rifles do their best with 240g bullets - you should try shooting some 240g out of a 44Mag rifle to see for yourself, if possible. Are you sure you want to give up on that Marlin? - you can also shoot some lower power cowboy 45-70 to get the recoil down. 45-70 is a very versatile cartridge....

[North Country Gal]

Have owned quite a few lever guns in both cartridges. For me, the 45-70 with those 300 or 325 grain loads always kicks harder than a 44 Mag with standard 240 grain loads, but I still wouldn't rate the 44 mag in a lever gun as soft shooter. There will be recoil to deal with.

One option you might want to consider is a 45 Colt in a lever gun. Standard 45 Colt loads are soft to shoot in a lever gun, noticeably easier on the shoulder than the 44 mag. When you need more power, though, plenty of 45 Colt loads that will get you up into 44 mag country.

[Blklasy]

Something like this under your shirt...shoot all day.
Adds about 1/4" LOP.
I have a Big Boy 44 with no recoil pad and is quite tolorable.
That colored case 44 is a beautiful rifle. I just bought one in 45-70 that I just Love.

[Redthies]

Are you sure you want to give up on that Marlin? - you can also shoot some lower power cowboy 45-70 to get the recoil down. 45-70 is a very versatile cartridge....

That’s just it. I’m not sure I do want to get rid of it. That said, the CCH Henry is a damn nice gun too. I figured the weight of the octagon barrel would offset some kick. I’ll have a look around for light loads for the .45-70 too.

[Flinch]

A Henry CCH is on my wish list. If you want to try some lighter recoil 45-70 reloads, pick up some 300g or 350g lead bullets and work up some light loads with fast pistol powders for punching paper. I shoot 300g and 350g lead bullets I buy from Laser Cast in my 1888 Trapdoor. Here is a great resource for load development. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[JEBar]

we own and shoot both a BBS 44 Mag and CCH 4570 .... there most certainly is a substantial difference in recoil .... I've had surgery on both shoulders .... left shoulder for chronic dislocations and right shoulder for rotator cuff and bone spurs .... we've spent almost more money on aftermarket mods/upgrades to our 45-70 to lessen recoil than it cost us to start with .... I still can't handle shooting many full power rounds from a benchrest .... consequently, I'm working on coming up with a Cowboy Action level load .... I can, have, and often do fire 100 or more full power 240 gr hunting loads from a benchrest without any recoil related issues

[BigAl52]

Redthies
350 grain Berrys and 16 grain of Universal Clays works good for me. Very mild load. I have one of those strap on recoil pads in my basement I think if you want it let me know I can send it to you no charge.

[Ojaileveraction]

I have a 1895CB and love to shoot it low and slow.
Low pressure and slow muzzle velocity.
350g to 405g shoot best in my Marlin.
-1300fps and can hit targets out to 500 meters using a rest.

[220]

I had both and couldnt find anything the 44mag did better than the 45/70 hence I no longer have a 44.
If you reload the 45/70 can be down loaded to 44mag levels if not then cowboy loads are the best option.

[PT7]

...I have managed to really screw up my rotator cuff on my right shoulder, and have to be careful with how much I beat it up. ...I’m sensitive to recoil.

What she said.

One option you might want to consider is a 45 Colt in a lever gun. Standard 45 Colt loads are soft to shoot in a lever gun, noticeably easier on the shoulder than the 44 mag. When you need more power, though, plenty of 45 Colt loads that will get you up into 44 mag country.

The .45 Colt round would be minimally impactful of the three calibers mentioned in this thread. "Soft to shoot" is one way to describe it. From my perspective, I'd say "unnoticeable." It is that mellow. Of course as NCG also noted, there are .45 loads that you can ramp up to a .44 Magnum level. I shoot the .45 Colt round often in a S/A revolver, and it has become my favorite caliber.

I neither own a Henry in .45-70 or in .45 Colt, but I have shot both thanks to friends giving me that opportunity. Sorry that I can't compare to the .44 Magnum. Without hesitation my choice would be a .45 Colt lever, especially in light of your shoulder injury. It is a special, soft-shooting, mild round.

All that to say this. Even though I may really like a firearm, if it has the potential to further injure my shoulder or hands (maybe even hearing!), the health issue would be the guiding factor. So when you said "...I have to be careful with how much I beat it up...I'm sensitive to recoil," I think you have stated the bottom line. It's your health that is most important.

I'm not certain if my thoughts have reached the two-cents level. But for whatever it is worth, best as you move ahead.
PT7

[Redthies]

Two other factors to add fuel to this fire are:

1- i no longer reload as I have zero spare time, and 2- I need to potentially use this rifle as a camp gun in grizzly country. I do have a 12 gauge, but I need a backup plan.

.45 Colt sounds like a ton of fun to shoot paper with, but not ideal for bears. The .45-70 really shines there. I think step one is to try and find some cowboy action loads to try. I’m also waiting to hear back about availability of the CCH as the CDN distributor is out of stock at the moment.

[tractortad]

That 45-70 Marlin is a great solution to any grizzly problem, but grizzlies and a recoil sensitive shoulder is probably not a good mix...

[JEBar]

I think step one is to try and find some cowboy action loads to try.

the ones from HSM are the best I have found in all respects


https://www.cabelas.com/product/HSM-COW ... s?slotId=0

[Redthies]

That 45-70 Marlin is a great solution to any grizzly problem, but grizzlies and a recoil sensitive shoulder is probably not a good mix...

Nope, not a good mix, but an unfortunate reality where I live.

To continue on the 44 vs 45-70 debate, let’s do this: .44 magnum vs big ass bear. Discuss. The table below is from HSMs “Bear Load” ammunition page. The numbers speak loud to me. Green is velocity, red is energy. I’m assuming at muzzle.

[tractortad]

I'm with you on this - I think 45-70 is the go to cartridge for any bear - black or brown. On top of that, most of those hot, heavy bullet 44Mag and 45LC loads (i.e. Buffalo Bore) are too big to cycle in a Henry. I also think that SS Marlin is one of the toughest, most reliable and weather resistant ways to launch a 45-70 at a bear - sounds to me like you need to keep it....

[JEBar]

yep, very different worlds .... as noted earlier, I share the shoulder issues .... question : when out in grizzly territory under the conditions you are facing, what's the most full power 45-70 rounds you'd anticipate needing .... she will hold 5 rounds but I tend to believe that if you needed to fire that many or more, things ain't going well .... I might be sore later but given those conditions, I'm pretty certain that adrenaline and fear would allow me to get off some rounds without noticing the recoil and probably not even the muzzle blast .... as one more number to consider, add HSM's Cowboy Action loads to your chart

[JEBar]

from personal experience, I'm perfectly comfortable carrying a 44 Mag when hunting black bear and/or large boar .... for me the only question would be the choice between 240 gr JHP's or SP's

[North Country Gal]

Buffalo Bore does make some 45 Colt +P bear loads with 265 grain bullets that will work in a Henry and they will get you right up into that heavy 44 mag territory.

[fortyshooter]

I have a 1895 GS also in .45-70. Loading your own is the fix with a 405 gr. hard cast lead over 14 gr. of Unique which shoots nice and pleasant but
still carries some punch!