Range Report -- my new BBS .357 Carbine

[PT7]

I got my new Henry BBS .357 Magnum at the end of July, and had some difficulty sighting it in using a Skinner barrel-mounted peep sight. Wrote to Andy Larsson at Skinner about my problem getting the sight-in corrected. I had some problems with both windage and elevation adjusts. When I eventually "found" the target at 25 yards, my POIs were about 11.5" low elevation and 3"-4" right windage. 

Andy asked if I had centered the sight in the dovetail, which I had done as best I could. If centered, then he suggested that perhaps​ something is skewed in the crown. As far as elevation adjust, as I raised the peep I ran out of threads on the stem, and was still 1"-1.5" low!! That never happened before as I've mounted several of these barrel-mounted sights.

My final decision was to "give up" on this barrel-mounted peep. So I ordered a blued Skinner "Express" sight, and installed it on the receiver. Here is my sight-in range report with this new sight on my BBS.

As some of you may remember, I am challenged using a rifle rest. I shoot much better off hand. But Friday at the Parma Woods range was different. I had quite a good time and quite easily got the Henry rifle on target.  In fact, from now until deer season I've decided to concentrate my practice on using this Henry rifle.  I'll need to determine which ammo is best to use for the hunt, and I had some good data when I practiced with my previous .357 BB.  In my report following you'll see I need more practice at the 50-yard distance.  I will get there again, and maybe even do some work at 75-yards.
 
Thursday I got my Express sight (blued model) from Skinner, and mounted it right away.  It was a snap to remove the barrel-mount Skinner, install a blued blank in the barrel's dove-tail slot, and to mount the Express on the receiver.  Ready to go for Friday range time.
 
OK, attached pics below of my four targets.  My sight-in target was a 2" orange dot on white foam core, set at 25 yards.  Shot two 4-round groups.  First group POIs was both high and to the right, each off approx. 3".  Adjusted both windage and elevation, and brought in the second group much better.  After this group I made a mini windage adjust to try and center dead-on the bull.  Sight-in done.
 
Mounted some other targets at 25 yards, another 2" orange dot and also a 6" black splash target.  Hurrah!  Got to set aside the rifle rest, and shot off hand only.  This is where the fun began!  Both 5-round groups turned out really decent to my eyes!    The orange dot group size was 2-1/4", and the black splash group size was 2-3/4".   And these POIs were after only shooting a total of 25 rounds with the Express sight prior to these two groups.  I'm a happy carbine shooter already at this distance!  Finally, a comment on the 50-yard target. It is definitely a home-made target.  I had a 12" X 18" silhouette with the bull pretty shot up, so cut it down to this 12" X 11-1/2" football-shaped target.  Just made it for some fun plinking, which I did.  I shot 10 rounds at 50 yards.  Got 9 POIs in target, and one is low/right, just into the cardboard.  Definitely need to tighten this up when shooting off-hand.  NCG is right that it's about impossible to hold that barrel solidly steady for off hand shooting!  But I think I'll be able to lessen the largish 8-1/2" group you see here.   It's just too big.  Anyway, it will be fun trying to improve at longer yardages.
 
It was a day with excellent weather for some outdoor range time. When I got to Parma Woods it was partly sunny, no wind, and temp in upper 60s.  When I left after shooting an hour, it was only about 73*.  Sure has been mild summer weather here in KCMO area for end of August and start of September!  I'm good with that.

Almost forgot! Thought I'd mention one glitch I had with my BBS carbine.  In the middle of my shooting time, I had difficulty chambering some rounds.  It suddenly became very hard after I ejected a casing to bring the next round into the receiver. This maybe happened 7-8 times.  So after emptying the magazine, I pounded pretty hard on the lever action and cycled a lot of times.  For some reason, it eased up for the rest of my ammo.  I only used the Rem 125gr JHP Golden Saber ammo.  I'll have to look more closely at the rifle when I clean it.  I cycled it several times again here at home, and it still seems to be okay.   Wonder what happened? 

Hope this wasn't too long, or too boring of a sight-in range report. Trust all will enjoy Sunday and the Monday holiday!
Take care....PT7

.357 BB Steel Carbine sight in.jpg (89.15 KiB) Viewed 2673 times

.357 BB Steel Carbine off hand 25 yards.jpg (132.45 KiB) Viewed 2673 times

.357 BB Steel Carbine off hand 50 yards.jpg (142.94 KiB) Viewed 2673 times

[Cofisher]

Good work PT! Getting used to the off hand hold will come with more time. Glad you are excited about your carbine. Are you going to hunt with the 125 grain bullets? I have settled on the 158 grain. Looking forward to more and improving reports.

[NoFlyZone]

Hey PT7, I've been watching for your range report on this .357. I've ordered the same BBS carbine, however I won't have it for a while because I ordered a personalized serial number.. the wait is going to be hard!!

Anyway, I was especially interested in the Skinner sights that I know you put on. I want to do the same thing, sounds like I should stick with the receiver mounted "Express" sights. Did you notice much difference in looking through the barrel mounted ones compared to the receiver mounted? As far as improving your shots out at 50 yards (by the way, your's are already pretty good) do you think trying a smaller aperture would help? I don't know, as I don't have a lot of experience with them. I do have the Small Game Carbine with them and really like it.
But, nice shooting off hand! Enjoy reading your reports!
Dale - AZ

[tractortad]

PT7 - great range report - any hit in the red while standing at 50yds is darn good shooting.

NoFly - Here's another Skinner option for a BBS Carbine that you may want to check out - it works for us:

Bigboy44.JPG (155.59 KiB) Viewed 2656 times

Low Pro.JPG (83.63 KiB) Viewed 2656 times

BigBoy44-2.JPG (179.81 KiB) Viewed 2656 times

It's a Skinner "Low Pro" peep sight that screws into the rear-most factory threaded receiver hole on a BBS. Front sight is a Lyman Globe with Lee Shaver insert.

[NoFlyZone]

Thanks for the info Tractortad. I will consider that one too.

[North Country Gal]

PT, that was anything but boring! very informative and I'm sure it will help a lot of others with similar questions on the sights.

I agree with Cofisher on the 158s for hunting. Those 125s are traditionally meant as revolver self-defense rounds, though they would work for you, depending on what you are hunting. For sure, though, the 125s and the 158s will have quite different POIs. Also, given that those 125s are SD rounds for revolver work, their shorter COL may have been the culprit on the feeding issue. Might try going to standard 158s and see if that cures it.

Play with aperture size on the peep, carefully. Too small is not good, either, and only works in the best of light. Best for target work on the right day. For hunting, where brightness will vary quite a bit, err on the larger side.

That's some fine offhand shooting. Good for you. Love it. Great post. Thanks.

[RanchRoper]

Very informative post. That's some real fine off hand shooting. Thanks for sharing.

[PT7]

Thanks, Cofisher. I will definitely get more comfortable shooting this BBS carbine with more range time....and will improve my POIs. I'm really looking forward to more range time with this Henry --- plan to be out this coming Friday. Absolutely love shooting off hand -- only way for me!

Since both you and NCG commented on my choice for a hunting bullet, I've commented on bullets in my below post back to her.

Good work PT! Getting used to the off hand hold will come with more time. Glad you are excited about your carbine. Are you going to hunt with the 125 grain bullets? I have settled on the 158 grain. Looking forward to more and improving reports.

A personalized serial number sounds cool, Dale. I may have missed it, but did you tell us what it is? Yup, the wait is always long.

The only Skinner peeps I've used (prior to getting my SGC with the stock receiver-mounted sight) were the barrel-mounted ones. They work fine. But the first time I tried my SGC, I really noticed a good difference. I was more easily & quickly able to acquire the target using the receiver-mounted sight, and feel less "strain" on my eye at the same time. As I wrote, I had decided to try the barrel sight for my BBS .357. Must admit I just plain 'ole goofed on that choice. The "Express" sight is excellent and a pleasure to use. From my brief experience, it's is the way to go for me.

I have all five Skinner aperture sizes. I believe the Skinner web site notes the .096" standard size comes stock on a receiver-mounted sight, and the .125" large size is stock for the barrel-mounted sight. Your suggestion on a smaller aperture is well taken. I think I'll try the .070" medium sight when I shoot later this week. And thanks for your kind comments on my shooting & report.

Hey PT7, I've been watching for your range report on this .357. I've ordered the same BBS carbine, however I won't have it for a while because I ordered a personalized serial number.. the wait is going to be hard!!

Anyway, I was especially interested in the Skinner sights that I know you put on. I want to do the same thing, sounds like I should stick with the receiver mounted "Express" sights. Did you notice much difference in looking through the barrel mounted ones compared to the receiver mounted? As far as improving your shots out at 50 yards (by the way, your's are already pretty good) do you think trying a smaller aperture would help? I don't know, as I don't have a lot of experience with them. I do have the Small Game Carbine with them and really like it.
But, nice shooting off hand! Enjoy reading your reports!
Dale - AZ

Hey, tractortad, those are good options you showed us in your photos. I wasn't aware Skinner had the "Low Pro" peep sight. The simplicity of the mount looks sharp! I would guess that I'd still have the option of changing out the front sight to a Lyman Globe like you suggested? When I adjusted my Express for elevation, I bottomed out on the aperture stem and just brought the elevation in okay.....barely! So there is no elevation wiggle room left. Would that front sight change possibly help?

And appreciate your encouraging comment on my 50-yard shooting.....I will keep after it!

PT7 - great range report - any hit in the red while standing at 50yds is darn good shooting.

NoFly - Here's another Skinner option for a BBS Carbine that you may want to check out - it works for us:
Bigboy44.JPGLow Pro.JPGBigBoy44-2.JPG
It's a Skinner "Low Pro" peep sight that screws into the rear-most factory threaded receiver hole on a BBS. Front sight is a Lyman Globe with Lee Shaver insert.

NCG.....I trust that my range report might help others out on the iron sights. And I know you really like to shoot off hand, too. Your comments to me also were most encouraging....thanks much!

As I answered NoFlyZone, I plan to "carefully play" with the aperture sizes. Shall see how that works out.

Bullets. I still have some larger-grain possible deer hunting rounds in stock. Here are my initial "test" bullets, with a couple of comments:

~~~Buffalo Bore 140gr Barnes XPB
~~~Barnes VOR-TX 140gr XPB HP
~~~Fiocchi 158gr Extrema XTP HP
~~~Black Hills 158gr JHP
~~~Doubletap 180gr Hard Cast FNGC

The first bullet was recommended to me by an experienced hunter. Will need to read up/compare the two Barnes bullets again.
I use Black Hills ammo quite a lot. Especially like to shoot Black Hills 158gr CNL at splash targets, but wouldn't use it for hunting.
In my reading, I'm not certain if a hard cast bullet like the Doubletap would be effective. The 180gr hard cast configuration just might be too strong, and run cleanly through a deer without being an effective take-down bullet.

I'm looking forward to reading and testing larger grain .357 magnums. Any thoughts or suggestions on my above list?

PT, that was anything but boring! very informative and I'm sure it will help a lot of others with similar questions on the sights.

I agree with Cofisher on the 158s for hunting. Those 125s are traditionally meant as revolver self-defense rounds, though they would work for you, depending on what you are hunting. For sure, though, the 125s and the 158s will have quite different POIs. Also, given that those 125s are SD rounds for revolver work, their shorter COL may have been the culprit on the feeding issue. Might try going to standard 158s and see if that cures it.

Play with aperture size on the peep, carefully. Too small is not good, either, and only works in the best of light. Best for target work on the right day. For hunting, where brightness will vary quite a bit, err on the larger side.

That's some fine offhand shooting. Good for you. Love it. Great post. Thanks.

You're welcome, and much appreciated, RR. Such a positive comment on my off hand shooting from an "expert" in off hand shooting is a great way to top off this thread!! If I could get my 50-yard target (or even at 75 yards) to mirror your target results, I'd be quite satisfied.

Very informative post. That's some real fine off hand shooting. Thanks for sharing.

[NoFlyZone]

A personalized serial number sounds cool, Dale. I may have missed it, but did you tell us what it is? Yup, the wait is always long.

Yes, I ordered a Big Boy Steel Carbine in .357 (H012MR). Getting a personalized serial number puts the ETA around Nov-Dec.
Thank again for the range reports and earlier pictures of yours!
Dale -AZ

[North Country Gal]

Those 180/200 grain 357 hard cast bullets are all about deep penetration on the really big stuff. Have been known to carry the BB 180s in a revolver for protection against neighborhood black bears, every now and then, though, to be honest, the odds are much higher for me to get hit by lightning than have a bear problem and I'm out in the woods almost every day, so I almost never carry, anymore.

If I were to go hunting, again, for deer, I'd just stick with standard JSP/JHP loads in a 357 and call it good. Will say that I've gotten excellent accuracy from the Buffalo Bore stuff and especially, the Barnes. Way pricey, though. Since we just shoot paper, now, we shoot mostly Mag-tech or PMC 158s. Those loads keep us under our self-imposed 50 cents a shot limit and do fine for target work.

[tractortad]

I would guess that I'd still have the option of changing out the front sight to a Lyman Globe like you suggested? When I adjusted my Express for elevation, I bottomed out on the aperture stem and just brought the elevation in okay.....barely! So there is no elevation wiggle room left. Would that front sight change possibly help?

PT7 - The Lyman Globes slide into the same 3/8 dovetail that your present front sight is in, so you can definitely switch it out. They come in a couple of different heights - .404", .494", .584" measured from base to center of globe. I went with the 494" Lyman Globe on my BBB 357 with Skinner "Express" rear sight - I think this height Lyman would probably be your best bet. The peep stem is about two full turns up from full bottom with this set-up on our BBB357 - sighted in at 25 yds with Federal 158g JSP. The Lymans come with several inserts to change the front sight picture (circles, stems, tinted disc), but I think the best picture comes from adding a set of Lee Shaver inserts (about $20 from Lee Shaver Gunsmithing) - these are very fine circles/crosshairs/open crosses that make the front sight perform like a low power scope. You can even put in two together to get different styles/shapes - lots of fun to experiment with...

[PT7]

I can see I was unclear with my question...sorry about that. I didn't ask what rifle you ordered; I asked if you had told us what the personalized serial number was going to be on the rifle? Thanks.

A personalized serial number sounds cool, Dale. I may have missed it, but did you tell us what it is? Yup, the wait is always long.

Yes, I ordered a Big Boy Steel Carbine in .357 (H012MR). Getting a personalized serial number puts the ETA around Nov-Dec.
Thank again for the range reports and earlier pictures of yours!
Dale -AZ

[PT7]

Wow! I didn't know that the 180gr DoubleTap hard cast bullets could be used on black bears.

Appreciate the suggestion on using "standard JSP/JHP loads in a .357," and to also learn that the Buffalo Bore (Barnes especially) has excellent accuracy. Guess that is why it was recommended to me. I'll be sure to pay particular attention to how those go down range. Thanks, SGC.

Those 180/200 grain 357 hard cast bullets are all about deep penetration on the really big stuff. Have been known to carry the BB 180s in a revolver for protection against neighborhood black bears, every now and then, though, to be honest, the odds are much higher for me to get hit by lightning than have a bear problem and I'm out in the woods almost every day, so I almost never carry, anymore.

If I were to go hunting, again, for deer, I'd just stick with standard JSP/JHP loads in a 357 and call it good. Will say that I've gotten excellent accuracy from the Buffalo Bore stuff and especially, the Barnes. Way pricey, though. Since we just shoot paper, now, we shoot mostly Mag-tech or PMC 158s. Those loads keep us under our self-imposed 50 cents a shot limit and do fine for target work.

[PT7]

Tractortad --- Those are all very helpful details on your sight set up; that the Lyman globes use a dovetail slot, and especially your suggestion on the front sight height to use. I'll also check out what the Lee Shaver inserts look like. Your options are something I'll think about now. Appreciate it very much.

I would guess that I'd still have the option of changing out the front sight to a Lyman Globe like you suggested? When I adjusted my Express for elevation, I bottomed out on the aperture stem and just brought the elevation in okay.....barely! So there is no elevation wiggle room left. Would that front sight change possibly help?

PT7 - The Lyman Globes slide into the same 3/8 dovetail that your present front sight is in, so you can definitely switch it out. They come in a couple of different heights - .404", .494", .584" measured from base to center of globe. I went with the 494" Lyman Globe on my BBB 357 with Skinner "Express" rear sight - I think this height Lyman would probably be your best bet. The peep stem is about two full turns up from full bottom with this set-up on our BBB357 - sighted in at 25 yds with Federal 158g JSP. The Lymans come with several inserts to change the front sight picture (circles, stems, tinted disc), but I think the best picture comes from adding a set of Lee Shaver inserts (about $20 from Lee Shaver Gunsmithing) - these are very fine circles/crosshairs/open crosses that make the front sight perform like a low power scope. You can even put in two together to get different styles/shapes - lots of fun to experiment with...

[NoFlyZone]

I can see I was unclear with my question...sorry about that. I didn't ask what rifle you ordered; I asked if you had told us what the personalized serial number was going to be on the rifle? Thanks.

Ahhh, I may have misinterpreted the question as well. But we are on the same page now ..
Since this is one that will plan to hand down to my family or maybe a grandchild, I ordered it with first initial, family name and my year of birth. Kind of like "DJohnson1960"