Range Report: neighbor wants to shoot

[Sir Henry]

A neighbor woman wants to learn how to shoot for self-defense. My recommendation was if you aren’t going to practice everyday and shoot 10,000 rounds a year not to use a firearm for defense. At any rate she will be here in a few minutes and I’ll just teach her firearm safety and do some plinking.

Here is what we will be shooting plus a scoped CZ up on the 50 yard range.

IMG_4998.jpeg (5.91 MiB) Viewed 3195 times

[GunnyGene]

A neighbor woman wants to learn how to shoot for self-defense. My recommendation was if you aren’t going to practice everyday and shoot 10,000 rounds a year not to use a firearm for defense. At any rate she will be here in a few minutes and I’ll just teach her firearm safety and do some plinking.

Here is what we will be shooting plus a scoped CZ up on the 50 yard range.
IMG_4998.jpeg

That's a good start. Since she's interested in self-defense, I'd suggest that the next session focus on up-close and personal; 5,10, & 15yds with pistol and revolver, starting with .22 and moving up to whatever she can handle well for subsequent sessions. .380, .38spc, 9mm, .45acp, etc. and including self defense ammo (jhp) as well as range ammo. Malfunction drills,& presentation from concealed and open carry, reloads, shooting from various positions, and so on.

[BrokenolMarine]

I taught firearms for years, LE and civilians. I was very selective in those I accepted as civilian students. My classes consisted of four to five hours of classroom, and four hours on the range. I would break the range into two days if necessary for those who needed it.

Good advice guys. I'd start new shooters on the 22, and move up to the 38/9mm. We did all the basics on the range.

I too asked the students if they honestly would practice on a regular basis. Once a month or so. If not, I strongly recommended a 4" Revolver, in 38 caliber. With good ammo it would do the job, and a 4" helps with recoil.

My students who would practice could come to me for further coaching, or closer ranges for practice. I would usually advise against snubby revolvers or mini autos for new shooters until they became a bit more comfortable after practice and training. Mid size autos or revolvers to start. Glock 19/23s or the Smith k-frame family (and similar in other brands) were favorites.

[daytime dave]

Good luck Gene. I hope it goes well.

[Sir Henry]

I taught firearms for years, LE and civilians. I was very selective in those I accepted as civilian students. My classes consisted of four to five hours of classroom, and four hours on the range. I would break the range into two days if necessary for those who needed it.

Good advice guys. I'd start new shooters on the 22, and move up to the 38/9mm. We did all the basics on the range.

I too asked the students if they honestly would practice on a regular basis. Once a month or so. If not, I strongly recommended a 4" Revolver, in 38 caliber. With good ammo it would do the job, and a 4" helps with recoil.

My students who would practice could come to me for further coaching, or closer ranges for practice. I would usually advise against snubby revolvers or mini autos for new shooters until they became a bit more comfortable after practice and training. Mid size autos or revolvers to start. Glock 19/23s or the Smith k-frame family (and similar in other brands) were favorites.

She was not a good candidate for self defense and I told her so. Yet I did recommend she take it up as a hobby and just have fun. She was scared of guns and I found out her fear was of recoil and not of being shot. We only shot SV rimfire although I did shoot one hyper velocity through a revolver with a piece of paper beside it. When the paper shattered she realized how important it was to hold a firearm properly.

I’m not going to teach her self defense only firearms safety. Even though it was only the two of us we used military range safety. I think she still had fun especially hitting the gong and spinners. Instant reward.

[BrokenolMarine]

Excellent. I can understand that. I have taught those students as well, and as you did, started them with the rimfire. Always a chance to move up later if they desire. Good to hear she enjoyed the time.

[The Happy Kaboomer]

"Practice everyday and shoot 10,000 a year" In order to CCP?..........That's BS....... To 99% of concealed carriers.........Me included.

[Sir Henry]

"Practice everyday and shoot 10,000 a year" In order to CCP?..........That's BS....... To 99% of concealed carriers.........Me included.

I agree that it’s BS to 99% ofCCP. But that is what is needed to react correctly in most firefights. Locally a man shot an intruder who turned out to be his daughter’s boyfriend. He reacted out of fear and not reason. He had never practiced that split second reaction decision making. Even my infrequent plinking at the berm doesn’t prepare me for a firefight because I don’t practice the quick mag changes and other thought processes anymore.

[BrokenolMarine]

"Practice everyday and shoot 10,000 a year" In order to CCP?..........That's BS....... To 99% of concealed carriers.........Me included.

I didn't know any instructors who recommended practicing everyday for anyone, even Law Enforcement Students. After the academy, our Officers got an open range day once a month and 200 rounds of practice ammo for free. Only those in Hazardous Assignments shot more often in "Official Capacity." (SWAT, Warrant Services, etc.) When teaching civilians, I recommended they "Try" and get to the range once a month or every six weeks to keep their skill levels up, and take additional classes if they could, once a year or so to increase their knowledge and skill set. In both LE and civilian classes I'd have the students write out the following sentence:

"In a crisis situation, you will react in the way in which you have been trained."

In the academy, I had them write this on the cover of their spiral notebook in bold marker. I started every day, by having the class read the statement out loud. The first day, we had discussed it's meaning. In my civilian classes, I had them write it at the top of their notepad and we did the same, discussed what it meant.

At the end of the academy, and the end of the day long civilian class, I had them go back to that sentence above and draw a line through the word BEEN. Changed the meaning a bit.

"In a crisis situation, you will react in the way in which YOU have trained."

Now that the formal training was over, your practice, or your next classes, you tube videos, or post (academy) training will determine how you react. Don't practice, put the gun in a drawer and expect it to save you when the time comes, you might freeze.

I was a patrol officer for a good part of my career, a Field Training Officer, and Firearms Instructor. In line with that, (and because I enjoyed shooting,) I competed three weekends a month in PPC and in the occasional Glock Shooting Sports Foundation Match day, which entailed shooting in Multiple matches. Not only a good time, but the chance to meet Glock shooters from around the area and socialize. PPC offered good competition, skill building, shooting under stress, and networking building among the various departments and fellow agencies. So... between matches and practice, "I" shot between eight and ten thousand rounds a year. LOW among the top shooters in the disciplines, but I wasn't in the top tiers.

I had a 50 yard range on the farm and shot several days a week, but wasn't able to shoot every day... those shooting extremely high round counts were retired, and teaching firearms on a regular basis and shooting multiple disciplines, and winning... a lot. PPC, Bullseye, High Power, IDPA, shotgun, etc. They didn't do much else...

A couple pictures from the home range in VA. Set up for practicing the Glock course... and showing the PPC barricades in place..... one at 25 yards, one at 50 yards. New shooters at State Level PPC often struggled at 50 yards until they learned the positions and to control the breathing and trigger. Practice days at home were often ALL shot at 50 yards. We shot Prone, sitting, kneeling, and standing right and left handed at 50 yards. LOTS of practice.

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[BrokenolMarine]

Yeah, I don't shoot near that round count these days....
I still have a range at home however.

[CT_Shooter]

Locally a man shot an intruder who turned out to be his daughter’s boyfriend. He reacted out of fear and not reason. He had never practiced that split second reaction decision making.

I have a CT permit to carry a concealed weapon in public, but I won't and I likely wouldn't even if I was qualified. I really hope I never need to use one at home.

Stand-Your-Ground and the Duty to Retreat

Connecticut has a limited stand-your-ground law that applies in very specific circumstances. Unless you are in your home or office, you have a duty to retreat if you can safely do so without risk of harm to yourself or others. However, you do not have a duty to retreat and can stand your ground if:

• You reasonably believe you are faced with deadly force (regardless of whether the assailant was armed with a weapon)

• A trespasser has entered your home or office and you reasonably believe deadly force is necessary to prevent the trespasser from committing arson or a violent crime

• You reasonably believe the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent an unlawful entry into your home or office by force

These are the only situations in which a defendant can stand their ground and does not have a duty to retreat.

https://www.leb-law.com/self-defense-la ... nnecticut/

[Sir Henry]

I don’t conceal carry anymore and haven’t for several years. My main reason is I don’t practice enough. When I was in my early 50’s I went to the range up to five days a week. Especially in the summer but even in the winter I went a lot. There were several of us that headed to the range after work and many of us were there all day on the weekends. Most of us shot at least 10k a year with some of us shooting twice that.

We were allowed to draw and fast fire. The only requirement was that you could do it safe and hit your target. Sometimes five of us would be on two lanes so we had to take turns. If you missed you went to the back of the line. We would also have someone calling targets and they would try to make it as difficult as possible. We also had tennis balls that we threw out and you had to keep them moving.

We did this for hours daily year after year. I did it for five years. Some of the guys had been doing it for decades.

[BrokenolMarine]

I carried for a living for a decade, and had worked with Juvenile drug dealers for about three years. They had no respect for their own lives, even less for everyone else's. I had a reason to keep my skill levels high. I not only needed to be able to protect myself, but the lives of my wife, three daughters and my son. I also felt that if I was going to be teaching firearms to the academy, I should make every effort to be the best shot in the room.

I never talked about MY skillsets, I was introduced by another instructor and they provide your resume. I did the same for the others on the team. Doesn't sound like bragging then. I also didn't shoot while teaching. A point made by the NRA LEAD LE Instructor. Your credentials speak for themselves... you don't have anything to prove. Number one, it would just be showing off. Number two, you could have an off day, and then lose credibility.

Now... knowing what's out there from the time in that job. I do carry. I hope I never have to draw that weapon again. But I'd rather have it if the threat appears and I need to defend my wife or myself.

[Mags]

"knowing what's out there" is why I carry as well. I was cornered once before I started carrying - never again.

[Sir Henry]

I only hear of shootings within 50 miles of where I live. In three and a half years I have heard of two shootings. One was a drug deal and one was killed by her spouse. Random break ins and robbery is unheard of around here. True I occasionally go into Madison and Milwaukee but I feel my chances of getting killed is slim. And I know I’m in the minority about halving to practice so much to carry I just don’t practice that much.

[The Happy Kaboomer]

"Practice everyday and shoot 10,000 a year" In order to CCP?..........That's BS....... To 99% of concealed carriers.........Me included.

I agree that it’s BS to 99% ofCCP. But that is what is needed to react correctly in most firefights. Locally a man shot an intruder who turned out to be his daughter’s boyfriend. He reacted out of fear and not reason. He had never practiced that split second reaction decision making. Even my infrequent plinking at the berm doesn’t prepare me for a firefight because I don’t practice the quick mag changes and other thought processes anymore.

Answer is still BS............YOU DON"T need all that to stay compedent.

[GFK]

I can understand. One thing is a balance between stopping power and over penetration. For me, that is a concern. Each person is responsible for the round he/she discharge. Accuracy is good. Accuracy and not creating a problem is better. I agree with "train how you fight." With that in mind, that should dictate how you practice. So, once a person feels comfortable with his/her training, that is probably should be how he/she practice. Then, that is just me.

[5shot]

I carry every day and nearly everywhere. I also shoot a lot. I was on our church security team for years and have had numerous training courses and also many sessions in front of a simulator screen which is very close to real life. Excellent training for the critical decision making process. Along with being familiar and proficient with the firearm I believe the mental part of Concealed Carry is most critical. If someone isn't mentally prepared to use it if necessary then they shouldn't be carrying.

[BrokenolMarine]

You know, it's a funny thing.

I love to shoot. I always have. I grew up shooting, BB guns, Pellet Guns, 22s... then Competition in ROTC, and then the Military. After I left the Corps, I started shooting PPC. Practical Police Pistol, first local level matches where they only shot Match Five of the NRA Standard PPC course. 60 rounds, from 7 to 25 yards. When my mentor (A Police Sergeant) thought I was ready, he moved me up to the State level course... 150 rounds over a 50 yard course. Now, I was a department Firearms Instructor and taught Private Concealed Classes. I shot PPC three matches a month for about nine months. I also shot Glock Shooting Sports Matches. I'd shoot other invitational matches for fun. (Bowling pin/Falling Plates?)

Yes, "I" averaged about 10,000 rounds a year between practice, matches, and teaching classes where my instruction partner and I would shoot before and after the students arrived. I never suggested the average Officer or Concealed Weapons Student needed to shoot at that level to learn or maintain their skill levels.

I did, however, strongly suggest they shoot a box or two of ammunition a month for several months until they were comfortable, then at least a box of ammo every couple months to maintain skills. I also suggested continued education to increase knowledge and skills.

I continued to compete and push myself to insure my skills improved, and continued to learn so I could provide the best instruction possible for my LE and Civilian Students.

This is no different than the golf pro that I know that would hit at least two buckets of balls EVERY day without fail. He might chip them to the green, putt them, or drive them off the tee for distance, but he would hit a minimum of two buckets every single day. In addition, he would play at least one round of golf a day four or five times a week to maintain his high level of proficiency. He tried to play with someone as good or better than himself.

When I was shooting PPC, I tried to seek line assignments along side shooters better than I, so I could learn from them. The shooting community is a sharing community, and during down time most will pass along tips and tricks to help you improve. I always tried to coach new shooters if they were open to suggestions. Most wanted to improve and were glad to have the help.