Henry Rifle Forums

One of tne more common things I read on forums and hear at the range is, “I need scopes now because my old eyes aren’t good enough any more to shoot irons.”

I’ve ranted about this periodically, because I just don’t buy it. But first- the actual “bottom line” is that scopes and red dots and such are really a lot like automatic transmissions in motor vehicles. I used to really enjoy driving stick shifts, and the first several cars I owned had them. But now that I’m a little older, I prefer automatics. They’re much easier to drive, and i probably will never own another manual. Likewise, I can shoot better with a scope, so I do use them.

But it has nothing to do with my eyes. I’m 60, have worn glasses since I was about 11 for distance, and bi-focals for about 15 years for reading. But I can see plenty good at the range. Are younger eyes really better? Yes, in one important aspect- depth of field. When we’re young our eyes can focus on both the front and rear sights, as well as on our target. As we age, we lose much of that ability. In anything less than bright sunlight, our pupils open up, and we lose depth of field. Photographers know this well. A lens set at f16 has almost everything from lens to subject in focus. Set the same lens wide open at f1.8 and only a razor thin slice is in focus.

As we age, we notice looking down the sights of a rifle at a target that we have to choose what to focus on. But that’s fine. In fact “ghost ring” aperture sights are designed to take advantage of that. Look at the front sight, and hold it on target. The rear aperture “ghosts” and the brain automatically centers the front sight in the rear ring.

Shooting a handgun with black target sights is easy, even with “old eyes.” All that’s necessary is to be able to see your target. Use a 6 o’clock hold and line up the front and rear sights on the “6”. You don’t need to “see” the sights. Just be able to tell they’re just touching the bottom point of the target, and not covering it.

The two best shooters at the range where I shoot are both older than I am- one is in his 80’s- and they both do this. Neither of them ever complains about their eyes. They both shoot with scopes some times, but at 100 yards, they can also shoot really well with irons.

So, I guess the bottom line is yes, use scopes and red dots. But you don’t “need” to use them to shoot well. If you can pass the eye test to drive, you can see plenty well enough to shoot. If you don’t learn to shoot well with irons you’re missing out.

Oh, and a big credit goes to North Country Gal who somehow got through my thick skull awhile back and allowed me to see the light on how to shoot well with irons. Six o’clock.

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Thank you for a well thought written perspective. I remember well the days I had perfect vision and could shoot decently well using buckhorns. Unfortunately those days are gone for me. Over the past 20 years I've gone extremely farsighted and now wear thick progressive lens. Shooting without a scope is no longer possible for me. I cannot bring near sight and far sight into focus at the same time any more. Even moving my head slightly up and down to see through different parts of the progressive lens causes me to loose my sight picture and/or the muzzle moving off target. With a scope, there is no head movement to line up sights and target, as I'm only looking through one portion my progressive lens.

I think that "you don’t “need” to use them to shoot well" is indeed true for many. Just not everyone. Folks vision ranges from extreme near sighted to extreme far sighted. From personal experience, I don't see this as feasible for everyone.

ditto1958 wrote:... So, I guess the bottom line is yes, use scopes and red dots. But you don’t “need” to use them to shoot well. If you can pass the eye test to drive, you can see plenty well enough to shoot. If you don’t learn to shoot well with irons you’re missing out....

I have only ever shot with iron sights and like them. Might have to move on to something else one day but will use them as long as I can.

My eyes are 74 and wear bifocals. I can shoot iron ok with the bifocals, but better with a scope without the glasses. Also have a few floaters which can get in the way sometimes.

Nice to hear from you, again, ditto. It's been awhile.

As I get older, I do find that my eyes tire more quickly when shooting iron sights. Oh, I can still shoot irons as well as I could when I was younger, but the fatigue factor catches up with me, quicker, now. This is to be expected, since the lenses of our eyes dry out with age and our eye muscles must strain harder to flex and focus the lens. For me, it's not the fuzziness factor - I can manage that, despite the fact that it's harder to get the sharp focus I want on the front sight, sometime. Have never had great vision, anyway, and have been wearing glasses since grade school. Never let that stop when I was young and I won't let it stop me, now. It really is a myth that you must have great eyesight to be a good shooter.

As I get older, I find that the little things help a lot to optimize my iron sight shooting. I pick my battles, so to speak, by choosing days of good lighting when I want to shoot my iron sight guns. This helps to keep the eye fatigue to a minimum. Another way I optimize my iron sight shooting is to shoot irons, first, in a shooting session if I'm shooting guns with both iron sights and scopes/red dots.

I've never apologized for the fact that the vast majority of our guns are fitted with scopes and red dots and I won't start, now. For me, it's mostly a matter of maintaining performance at a level I want , regardless of shooting conditions or lighting and, as mentioned above, being able to shoot longer during any given shooting session. That said, there are some guns that I keep that I refuse to scope or red dot. They will always wear irons. I fact, some of them I bought just for the iron sights they have. Yup, I still regard expertise with iron sights as a prerequisite to being a good shooter. It's as basic as it gets.

Since we're on the topic of eye fatigue, I should mention that scopes don't eliminate eye fatigue, either. It can also be a factor during long shooting sessions. One way to minimize it is to use scopes with quality optics and get that scope eyepiece properly focused. Another tip is to shoot a scope with both eyes, open, if at all possible. Using one eye and closing the other produces uneven stress on the eyes, which leads to eye fatigue (whether shooting irons or a scope). If you must shut one eye when using a scope, here's a tip. Close that other eye as gently as possible, even closing just partially if that works. Whatever you do, don't squint that eye shut. Easy does it.

Ive got to say I can still shoot irons but I can see it fading. Red Dots are really nice and they are easy to use.

I do have and use both, however, there IS the older eye factor. Fatigue can also result from the effort and time in my case, that takes place upon target acquisition,...seems faster with optics. NCG, please correct me if that does not make sense. Would like to know if you can relate to that. I know we are all different with different needs, but theoretically, does that make sense?

Mark, in a sense that's true. Using optics makes everything appear in the same plane of sight. Everything, near and far, appears to be the equally sharp, so your eyes don't have to strain to focus back and forth between close and distant objects. That does reduce eye fatigue.

North Country Gal wrote:Nice to hear from you, again, ditto. It's been awhile.

As I get older, I do find that my eyes tire more quickly when shooting iron sights. Oh, I can still shoot irons as well as I could when I was younger, but the fatigue factor catches up with me, quicker, now. This is to be expected, since the lenses of our eyes dry out with age and our eye muscles must strain harder to flex and focus the lens. For me, it's not the fuzziness factor - I can manage that, despite the fact that it's harder to get the sharp focus I want on the front sight, sometime. Have never had great vision, anyway, and have been wearing glasses since grade school. Never let that stop when I was young and I won't let it stop me, now. It really is a myth that you must have great eyesight to be a good shooter.

As I get older, I find that the little things help a lot to optimize my iron sight shooting. I pick my battles, so to speak, by choosing days of good lighting when I want to shoot my iron sight guns. This helps to keep the eye fatigue to a minimum. Another way I optimize my iron sight shooting is to shoot irons, first, in a shooting session if I'm shooting guns with both iron sights and scopes/red dots.

I've never apologized for the fact that the vast majority of our guns are fitted with scopes and red dots and I won't start, now. For me, it's mostly a matter of maintaining performance at a level I want , regardless of shooting conditions or lighting and, as mentioned above, being able to shoot longer during any given shooting session. That said, there are some guns that I keep that I refuse to scope or red dot. They will always wear irons. I fact, some of them I bought just for the iron sights they have. Yup, I still regard expertise with iron sights as a prerequisite to being a good shooter. It's as basic as it gets.

Since we're on the topic of eye fatigue, I should mention that scopes don't eliminate eye fatigue, either. It can also be a factor during long shooting sessions. One way to minimize it is to use scopes with quality optics and get that scope eyepiece properly focused. Another tip is to shoot a scope with both eyes, open, if at all possible. Using one eye and closing the other produces uneven stress on the eyes, which leads to eye fatigue (whether shooting irons or a scope). If you must shut one eye when using a scope, here's a tip. Close that other eye as gently as possible, even closing just partially if that works. Whatever you do, don't squint that eye shut. Easy does it.

What's your opinion on eye patches? I use one and find it helpful.

I have added receiver mounted peeps to some of my open sight guns, and find that it helps. A lot.

[/quote] What's your opinion on eye patches? I use one and find it helpful.[/quote]

I used them for formal target shooting at the range and they work great. I don't use then, now, though, because a patch cuts down on my peripheral vision more than I like. Not a big deal when we're out at the range mostly by ourselves, but, from experience, makes me very uncomfortable when there's folks shooting on both sides of me, especially if they are folks I don't know. Too many spooky experiences with people who have less than good safety habits.

I find it very difficult to shoot with normal post & notch or buckhorn sights, but I do OK with ghost ring/aperture sights. My Henry's both wear Skinner sights, and it's nice to be able to shoot without the fear of the zero being off etc.

Me being 'off' is something else, though!

North Country Gal wrote:

What's your opinion on eye patches? I use one and find it helpful.[/quote]

I used them for formal target shooting at the range and they work great. I don't use then, now, though, because a patch cuts down on my peripheral vision more than I like. Not a big deal when we're out at the range mostly by ourselves, but, from experience, makes me very uncomfortable when there's folks shooting on both sides of me, especially if they are folks I don't know. Too many spooky experiences with people who have less than good safety habits.[/quote]

Appreciate your comment.

There is that. The only time I use one is for sighting in, or some target practice/hunting on my property. I don't patronize public ranges - no need to, and haven't shot competition in decades.

And I don't use it with pistol SD practice, since I wouldn't have it on for any real deal confrontation (train like you fight, and fight like you train) .

Actually, I'm a fan of both eyes open sighting, if you can do it.

I close one eye, then open it slowly until I reach a point where going any further gives me double vision.

I find I am more accurate with both eyes open, or nearly both open..

Edited to add, this is with handguns only. Of course, all my rifles have scopes, so......

Squint like Clint

Les wrote:I find it very difficult to shoot with normal post & notch or buckhorn sights, but I do OK with ghost ring/aperture sights. My Henry's both wear Skinner sights, and it's nice to be able to shoot without the fear of the zero being off etc.

Me being 'off' is something else, though!

Peep/aperture/ghost ring sights are probably the easiest irons to shoot well with. Semi-buckhorn sights seem to give a lot of shooters fits. Not sure why.

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I've been trying to figure out how to say that. Well put!

North Country Gal wrote:Mark, in a sense that's true. Using optics makes everything appear in the same plane of sight. Everything, near and far, appears to be the equally sharp, so your eyes don't have to strain to focus back and forth between close and distant objects. That does reduce eye fatigue.