Translation help requested - Japanese kanji

[GunnyGene]

Probably a long shot, but if anyone knows anyone who can translate this I'd sure appreciate it. This pic shows the factory markings on the tang of a 1930's katana that was a bring back from the war in the Pacific. From my own research it should be the signature of the swordsmith, the factory, and the date of mfg. , and possibly some other info. There are no serial number or other markings on the blade, which would have been on swords made after 1940. This and other features is how I placed it in the '30's, but without a translation I'm at a dead end. I've done considerable on-line research, but no joy.

[Cofisher]

Interesting. Hope you get some help.

[Freedom]

I personally can't help with the translation but there is a forum I'm a member of that can likely give you an answer. Try asking on Sword Buyer's Guide. There are a few members there that are quite knowledgeable on Japanese weapons ( and a few that aren't ).

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/

[GunnyGene]

I personally can't help with the translation but there is a forum I'm a member of that can likely give you an answer. Try asking on Sword Buyer's Guide. There are a few members there that are quite knowledgeable on Japanese weapons ( and a few that aren't ).

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/

Thanks. Just signed up, waiting on approval.

[PatientWolf]

Once you have the translation, could you post it here as a follow up?

[GunnyGene]

Once you have the translation, could you post it here as a follow up?

Of course. Assuming I'm successful. Here's a full length pic of the Katana in case anyone is interested.

[Freedom]

Nice!

[GunnyGene]

Ok here's the full translation from various sources, however this turned out to be more of a Japanese history lesson than just a translation.

The image shows only 2 items. There are no other markings of any kind anywhere else on the blade.

One is the Showa which is the era of Hirohito's reign which was from 1926 until his death in 1989. This gives us a date baseline. To narrow that down we go to the signature of the swordsmith. There are 5 kanji: wata nabe kane naga saku. Combining them as sort of syllables we get Watanabe Kanenaga Saku. Reasearching that I found this:

"Watanabe Kanenaga, 渡辺兼永, Noshu Seki ju Watanabe Kanenaga saku, Mino Seki ju Watanabe Kanenaga kore saku, student of Zenjou Kaneyoshi, Established the Watanabe Kanenaga Nihonto forging institute 日本刀鍜錬塾 in Showa 12. Received the title of "the head master of Japanese sword smiths" 日本刀匠総帥 in April Showa 15. His style of work is mainly Mino sanbunsugi, gunome choji midare and suguha. Had 18 students. He was an important teacher in the Seki area during the War. He was born on 1 January Meiji 5 and died in October Showa 21 at age 74."

So according to Showa Era year 12, this katana was made sometime between 1938 and 1941 (according to this and other features of the sword) at the institute Kanenaga founded. Since he had 18 students working for him it's very possible this sword was made by one of his students and not the Master himself. The forging institute was located in Mino, Gifu province, Japan, just north of Nagoya.

[BrokenolMarine]

Very Interesting... at least you know the Sword is real and NOT a replica brought back by someone who thought he had the real thing. Great find.

[GunnyGene]

Very Interesting... at least you know the Sword is real and NOT a replica brought back by someone who thought he had the real thing. Great find.

I neglected to post a couple links to information that may be of interest, or future reference. Basically starting points for investigation.

A listing and briefs of a couple dozen sword smiths of that era.

http://nihontocraft.com/Mino_Gendai.html

Wiki entry about the Showa Era (Hirohito)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dwa_era

[GunnyGene]

Very Interesting... at least you know the Sword is real and NOT a replica brought back by someone who thought he had the real thing. Great find.

I neglected to post a couple links to information that may be of interest, or future reference. Basically starting points for investigation.

A listing and briefs of a couple dozen sword smiths of that era.

http://nihontocraft.com/Mino_Gendai.html

Wiki entry about the Showa Era (Hirohito)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dwa_era

[Freedom]

Glad you found the info you were looking for.

Many searches I've seen on wartime "bring backs" have turned out to be cheap reproductions but from what I've read you have a rare piece of history on your hands. Congrats indeed and thanks for posting your find here.

[GunnyGene]

Glad you found the info you were looking for.

Many searches I've seen on wartime "bring backs" have turned out to be cheap reproductions but from what I've read you have a rare piece of history on your hands. Congrats indeed and thanks for posting your find here.

Not that rare, there were approx 2 million "factory" swords made between around 1935, just prior to the Sino Japanese Hostilities in 1937, thru the end of WWII. This one was one of the early factory swords, evidenced by the absence of a serial number that was usually inscribed on later ones produced after Pearl. There were also some other shortcuts made to speed up production, post Pearl, such as not sharpening the blade all the way back to the habaki.

One of the reasons I've been spending considerable time with this has to do with that business between China & Japan. My father was over there as crew on the USS Astoria (some considerable history of that cruiser - link below. She rests on the bottom of Iron Bottom sound now. ) in 1937 and brought home a small album of photo's he took and/or acquired from local sources.

So a Katana made in that era is a good addition to the family history, even tho I have no idea if it had been in action in China at that early date. It was a bring back I inherited from a Marine Uncle who liberated it on Okinawa.



"Nasty Asty" CA-34 home page:

https://ussastoria.org/

[markiver54]

Gunny, sorry this comes to you late, but thought we'd add what we found. Carol called upon her Japanese friend in Japan who in turn contacted her friend, a Japanese sword expert. Here's what she found. This may not help, but here it is.


To: ccorley926@aol.com
Sent: 8/2/2023 11:46:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Subject: FW: Check this out – Translation help requested - Japanese kanji - Henry Rifle Forums
Dear Carol,
In related to the Japanese sword, I finally got a reply from my acquaintance.
Please refer to the PDF attached.
He told me it was not possible for him and for his friend to identify the family name of the swordsmith because of the first two kanji characters in cursive style. Possible family name would be Sato, Ito or Saito. First name is probably Kanehiro, but there is a slim chance that the name can be read differently.
He referred to his directory of Japanese swordsmith and found that none of three names Sato/Ito/Saito Kanehiro was listed in it.
Well, that is all I found.
Love,
Tomoko

Japanese Sword.pdf

(171.93 KiB) Downloaded 88 times

[GunnyGene]

Gunny, sorry this comes to you late, but thought we'd add what we found. Carol called upon her Japanese friend in Japan who in turn contacted her friend, a Japanese sword expert. Here's what she found. This may not help, but here it is.


To: ccorley926@aol.com
Sent: 8/2/2023 11:46:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Subject: FW: Check this out – Translation help requested - Japanese kanji - Henry Rifle Forums
Dear Carol,
In related to the Japanese sword, I finally got a reply from my acquaintance.
Please refer to the PDF attached.
He told me it was not possible for him and for his friend to identify the family name of the swordsmith because of the first two kanji characters in cursive style. Possible family name would be Sato, Ito or Saito. First name is probably Kanehiro, but there is a slim chance that the name can be read differently.
He referred to his directory of Japanese swordsmith and found that none of three names Sato/Ito/Saito Kanehiro was listed in it.
Well, that is all I found.
Love,
Tomoko

Japanese Sword.pdf

Thanks for taking the time for this. I'm not surprised that there would be several different translations. It lends some mystery to the puzzle, and also often results in heated arguments between experts - which I am most certainly not.

The same thing happens with most ancient texts and artifacts of other cultures (and our own more recent history ) throughout history. Since the wayback machine apparently hasn't been invented yet, there really is no reliable authentication to be had for much of what we think we know about history - merely expert (and hobbyist ) opinions.

If you wish, I posted some additional pics on the SPG forum you're welcome to send off to your contact or whoever. I was told that other features (such as shown) can help determine provenance.

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thre ... ranslation

Changing the subject a bit, I have a pair of Chinese Temple Doors that were brought back in the mid-late 1800's by a New York gentleman that you might enjoy. These were made in an unknown village by a craftsman prior to 1800 or perhaps earlier judging by the wear on them from people going in and out. There were no power tools used to produce the very elaborate and intricate carvings on them, which I'm told portray the village and some of the wildlife in their area. There are no nails or other metallic fasteners, except the modern brass hinges that they are attached with. The doors themselves are all held to together with fine joinery and likely some homemade hide or fish glue. As usual, there's some artistic license taken by the maker.

Embarrassingly bad photography.

[markiver54]

Gunny, agreed about different interpretations. Checked out the link you sent. Will pass on to Tomoko's friend. Thanks for sharing those pictures. Absolutely amazing and beautiful. Carol is in awe. She lived in Japan for 9 years and is really into Asian art and craft. These are just spectacular!! She's jealous.

[GunnyGene]

Gunny, agreed about different interpretations. Checked out the link you sent. Will pass on to Tomoko's friend. Thanks for sharing those pictures. Absolutely amazing and beautiful. Carol is in awe. She lived in Japan for 9 years and is really into Asian art and craft. These are just spectacular!! She's jealous.

Being a semi-retired woodnut, I have an affinity for fine woodwork. You don't see this kind of talent and dedication to the craft much any more. The wood itself is silky smooth with no indication of sanding even under magnification, which indicates it was smoothed with scrapers - another clue to the age of them. I'm not sure of the species, but likely a locally harvested hardwood similar to walnut.

Some info for Carol on Chinese furniture woods. Note that imported woods from S.E. Asia were not generally allowed prior to 1572. But I suspect that some made it's way into China regardless.

https://www.shimu.co.uk/blogs/news/comm ... -furniture

http://chinese-furniture.com/c_furniture/materials.html

https://www.christies.com/features/Clas ... 612-1.aspx

PS: These were a Xmas gift I bought from a local antique dealer for my wife 23 years ago.

[markiver54]

Thanks, Gunny. Heck of a nice Xmas Gift! Carol is enjoying the links. Her father's hobby was woodworking (he came from a long line of wood craftsmen) and she also has an affinity for fine woodworking. She was especially interested in the Christie's piece on snuff bottles since she has a collection, though nothing as valuable as those.

[GunnyGene]

I took some better pics this morning. On the way to you in a PM.