Henry Rifle Forums

The world is changing. Going to the store for a gallon of milk has sometimes become a risky endeavor. More and more people have taken concealed weapons classes and gotten carry permits. Friends have asked what they can do to improve their chances of survival in the classic Stuff Hit's the Fan situation. I offer two standard answers and suggest that the combination of both together will improve their chances dramatically.

First: Take additional training and practice what you learn... regularly. Take shooting classes that interest you... shooting on the move, moving targets, shooting with a partner, or just a secondary shooting class aimed at improving your basics. Then practice, hopefully with someone better than you so you can pick up some pointers.

*** When practicing, don't just shoot the drills you are good at. We all like to shoot nice tight ragged groups. Do that, then move on. Shoot weak handed. Move back five yards and repeat your drills until the groups open up. Practice from there until they are small and tight again. Shoot ONE handed. Practice your speed load drills.

Second: Join a shooting club and shoot in some type of monthly match. The discipline doesn't matter, the competition is what matters. You'll improve your skill levels, learn to enjoy shooting more, practice to improve your skills, and learn to shoot under (Match) pressure thereby learn to shoot under stress. I broached this topic in a previous post way back when, but with the increase in the "threat level," I thought I might revisit it....

http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... re#p209781

... feel free to offer your thoughts and suggestions.

Keep in mind that starting in the local club matches is a great way to meet new practice partners and for new shooters to steepen that learning curve. I rarely saw anyone offended by questions at the local level matches and often saw shooters stay after to help new competitors when they were sincere about learning.

My second match, a young law student came up to me as I was donning my gear and told me he had spoken with the match director and we would be shooting on adjacent targets. "I noticed last month you were shooting to fast in almost every stage. Keep an eye on me at each stage and if you are changing positions before I do, slow down on the next phase of the stage as you are shooting too fast. Common for new shooters."

I did, I was, and we later became partners in team matches and were unbeatable at those local level matches. He graduated law school and dropped out of the matches to study for the bar, and the match director moved me up to state level... a whole new ball game.

Your advice is rock solid. So many people just get the permit and just do nothing. The gun is carried in purse or pocket without ever running any ammo through it.

BrokenolMarine wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:13 pm

The world is changing. Going to the store for a gallon of milk has sometimes become a risky endeavor. More and more people have taken concealed weapons classes and gotten carry permits.

What's more concerning to me is the number of states that currently allow permitless concealed or open carry and, in Missouri, even children are now allowed to carry guns.

People pulling into the wrong driveway are getting shot for their mistake. People innocently knocking on front doors are getting shot for their mistake. People mistakenly opening a familiar looking car door are getting shot for their mistake. There's no way to know if it will happen.

Oops. Bang.

CT_Shooter wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:07 pm

People innocently knocking on front doors are getting shot for their mistake. People mistakenly opening a familiar looking car door are getting shot for their mistake. There's no way to know if it will happen.

These cases are rare and in each are punishable by law. Most of the time it involves someone who is frightened of
where they live and over react.
Most of the shootings here in Minnesoooota involve folks who do not have a permit nor have had training. It's a lot
to do with the drug trade and the cut back in the police forces. A retired Minneapolis Police Lt. friend told me that
some nights there are only two officers to police the entire city after mid night. What they do now is wait till morning
and the day shift to check in and then investigate the murders from over night.

A very sorry state of affairs.

When not at my range I play some pinball with the guys up the street. Great for hand/eye coordination...I won 5 straight games today!

Lets all thank BOM for his input. Good information!
Lets also stay away from politics....

I've been actively shooting in action pistol matches for 40 years. These pistol matches require some movement and at time weak hand shooting. We also engage moving targets. Although age has slowed my reactions, I still can fire a very accurate shot, just not as fast as 20 years ago.

Paul

I really enjoyed my time in Competitions, from the High Power Rifle and The bullseye Pistol matches in the Corps, to the Law Enforcement PPC matches after I got out, it was as much about the camaraderie of the other shooters as it was the competition and the shooting. Until you move to the higher level matches, the interaction with the other shooters is normally pretty relaxed off the shooting lines. I rarely shot above state level matches but my mentor often shot National Level matches and he shared with me that there were folks at those matches that you just didn't speak to or disturb at the range as they were turned inside, focused and concentrating on winning.

There were also those at the National Level matches that you didn't talk to unless you "Were Someone" because they were "sponsored" and "Were Someone." Then there were sponsored shooters that were well known in the firearms circles that would take the time to talk to anyone, give shooting tips to the newest shooter on the range, and even loan equipment.

For the most part... as I saw it... the shooting community is a welcoming environment. Open to all. Going to matches you can learn a lot by watching and asking questions. Then, being brave enough to try it yourself... no one expects anyone to be perfect the first time out. That's why they have Novice classes.

I could not agree more competing in matches to sharpen skills and to learn how operate under a bit of pressure. I ran Action Pistol matches and shot Steel Plate matches, IDPA-style matches, and Bowling Pin matches.

I was always amazed at some of the new shooters that would typically shoot poorly at a match (understandable for new/first time competitors) but then offer the excuse that “When the Stuff Hit The Fan”, they could make their shots count.

Really?? They couldn’t hit a target in the prescribed time at a casual match, and somehow when a problematic situation occurs they will become an Expert Marksman?? The guys that hunted might say something like “Old Bob can’t hit a paper target, but when something with hair walks by, he’ll nail it”.

I kinda got my doubts about that. But if they would continue to compete, or practice for hunting by shooting different field positions, they would improve and as a result, learn to perform under some semblance of “pressure”. Completion is good for that.

EDITED: Fixeed a couple speling errs.......

One of our "Better" officers heard my shooting partner and I talking about my PPC matches and wanted to give it a shot. I told him that I'd be happy to loan him the equipment he needed to try, he need only buy his ammo for the first match, and I recommended a couple hundred rounds of practice ammo so he could come out to my home range and learn the positions and shooting off the barricade with the strong and weak hand before the next match in a few weeks. He was a Black Belt in two martial arts, a professional bounty hunter, and shot expert at every qualification, so he just said, "I got this." I explained that this was a much HIGHER level of shooting, he just repeated, "I got this."



I told him he would need 200 rounds of ammo for the 150 round course just to be safe, in case there were any strings he needed to reshoot... and we'd drive out together. His wife, (A banking exec,) wanted to come along and watch. The day went pretty much as I expected. At the shorter distances his first groups from the holster looked great, but the reloads were a bit slow and the second groups were rushed. Lost points. (Practiced shooters on the seven yard line usually shot 100% with skilled shooters shooting 12x for 12 shots.) Dropped points were rare.

As we moved farther back, he dropped more points as his sitting and kneeling were loose and they cost him points at distance. The barricade was fine with strong hand, but he dropped a lot of points on weak hand and time cost him fumbling changing positions. He finished WAY down in the standings and wasn't bragging on the way home. I told him that with practice he could do well, he just needed to learn the positions, faster speedloading, and get comfortable with the matches and it would all come together, no one does great on the first time out. "But," I said, "Tell the truth, you thought you were going to come out and show all the old guys how it was done."

"No... nothing like that."

He was driving, and his wife was sitting behind him in the fold down jump seat in the extended cab pick up. I could see her from behind my sunglasses and HE didn't know where I was looking. When he said NO, she vigorously nodded YES!

He said he'd get in some practice time and come out and try again, and probably buy some gear and a match gun of his own and join the league. I told him how it would make him safer on the job....

We stopped at a small country store with great burgers and hand cut fries and he told us to stay in the AC, he'd buy. He ran in. The wife told me not to expect to see him again...

"He won't come back because he didn't do well at his first try. He won't do it again. Karate, BOOM, instant skill and built on that. Judo, good at the start. Boxing, didn't have the footwork so he never went at it." She was right, when I asked him about it he said he just didn't have the time.

One of the things I tell people, is that they need to work at the things they AREN'T so good at. Shoot a few tight groups, then switch to the things you NEED to work on. Weak hand, reloading, draw and shoot, shooting on the move. If you only practice what you are good at, you don't improve the things you need to work on.

I took a Shooter improvement course and during the assessment phase where the instructor checked our skill levels, I shot a nice tight group within his time/distance parameters. He stepped up behind me and said, "You are shooting too slow."

I said, "I was well within the time limit."

"Your group is too tight.... you are here to improve your skills, push yourself."
For the rest of the class, I did.

Well, here is the thing. I am a senior with all the usual aches and pain the comes with age (bad back,knees, etc.). I can not run, knell or do all the physical things that these classes call for. I have called around to different places to see if they could offer a senior level of classes and not one had such of class. One place actual discourage me without saying I was to old. Bulls**t. Suggestions?

The Wiz wrote: ↑

Thu May 04, 2023 9:11 am

Well, here is the thing. I am a senior with all the usual aches and pain the comes with age (bad back,knees, etc.). I can not run, knell or do all the physical things that these classes call for. I have called around to different places to see if they could offer a senior level of classes and not one had such of class. One place actual discourage me without saying I was to old. Bulls**t. Suggestions?

That IS BS!

The better facilities, such as Gunsite and Blackwater; used to teach wheelchair classes. I called and talked to Gunsite and they said they would work with me to adapt to my physical challenges, although there would be portions of the classes I would not be able to complete. I was fine with that. I was about to schedule my class when I fell and shattered my femur. I was over a year in recovery and then we moved from VA to OK and that consumed a year. I never got to go. I would still like to take the training. You also might check with private instructors who will teach such classes. They are out there.

I taught for several decades and limited my classes to no MORE than four. I often taught individual students and one student was an older female with MS whom I worked with to determine what firearm would work and she would be comfortable with. We discovered she was actually a good shot with a Ruger Mark II Semi-Auto, and she COULD manipulate the slide on that firearm. She really enjoyed shooting when she discovered she could. She bought her own Ruger and shot often.

If you are looking for Competition, try Bullseye, it's static and the time limits are generous. There are also competitions for Steel where you shoot at Steel Targets over various distances. You might also look into the Shooting Sports Foundation and ask about ParaSports shooting, as they might know about Physically Challenged Sporting competition available. (I would suspect that the Paralympic Shooting Sports begins at the local levels.)