Shooting Pistols

[Mags]

Oregon requires a gun safety class. Live fire is optional. I think Oregon prefers, that if you have to shoot, that you miss, thus saving a life (but not your own).
The gun part includes safe handling of pistols (semi's and revolvers) and rifles aimed at avoiding accidental shooting due to mishandling.
The class also included Oregon laws as well as laws of surrounding states.

[Ernie]

Michigan required an 8 hour class with a written test and live fire certification. I took this when the state first offered concealed carry maybe 15- 20 years ago. I am required to swear I have shot every year to remain familiar with my firearm in order to renew my license. I do not have to re-certify at this point in time and a Michigan license is good for 5 years.

[The Happy Kaboomer]

My personal range 10 to 100 yards.

[BigAl52]

When shooting for score or group size, I've always done a little better with a semi-auto, but not enough for me to prefer them over a good revolver. I still consider myself to be a revolver shooter when it comes to conventional handguns. That's always been my home base.

When I go to the range to sight in a revolver (or check it for POI if it's a fixed sight revolver), I always start at 16 yards (50 ft). After that, it depends on the revolver size and intended use.

If it's a snubbie or an up close pocket style revolver, I'll keep shooting at that distance or mix in some closer work. If it shows promise, I may even try it at 25 yards, just to see what it can do.

For a full size revolver with at least a 4" barrel, I go to 25 yards, next. This is a distance where I shoot all my medium and large frame revolvers for initial accuracy testing. This is the distance where I rate full size revolvers for accuracy via group size. This is also a practical shooting distance for a woods carry revolver and even a hunting revolver when hunting in heavy cover.

For the long barreled revolvers, 6" or more, I move to 50 yards, next, sometimes even 100 yards if it's a dedicated hunting or silhouette revolver. Yeah, 50 yards or 100 yards with a revolver is pretty nutty by today's standards, but back when I was using a revolver for deer hunting, 50 yards with a revolver was very typical and 100 yards was a long shot, but still doable with the right revolver and a lot of practice. Ranges are even longer in handgun silhouette.

You can tell a lot about a revolver's accuracy potential with these longer distances and many big bore revolvers have a long history of being shot at these distances. This is NOT stunt shooting, by the way. There have been models of revolvers made and designed to be shot at these distances and they are still being made. This kind of shooting just gets overlooked with today's heavy emphasis on self-defense shooting.

Curious NCG. Would you classify a 629, 610, and a 686 all in 4 inch barrels as hunting revolvers or self defense? You can throw the Ruger line up in the mix also .

Shooting any of these beyond 25 yards takes some serious practice and I know from my experience with the 610 hitting 4 inch clays on a bank at that distance is a challenge. Maybe I put to much pressure on myself to be able to consistently hit that 4 inch target at that distance

[BigAl52]

Yes, some states are requiring so-called certification to carry a firearm. I can understand the desire of wanting to ensure safe use. I recall a state trooper expressing to me his concern of a 100 lbs man carrying a 6" .44 mag being over powered by someone and taking his fireman. Yet, the certification seems like a way of tracking who has firearms and where. In this day and time, carrying may not be a bad thing. At least, that is what the trooper told me.

Al, I suspect you will have no problem with the live fire, regardless of the type of handgun you decide to use. Shooting is not new to you. Like riding a bicycle, somethings are second nature.

Thanks GFK. I do both. Ride the bicycle and shoot. I will soon know about the shooting course here as next year I need to renew my CCW

[CT_Shooter]

CT residents are required to complete a handgun safety course, which must consist of no less than the NRA's "Basic Pistol Course", in order to obtain a five year pistol permit. That course has a live fire component. Fingerprints and a background check are also required. The permit allows the holder to carry a concealed firearm and purchase guns and ammunition. Other than the fee, there are no additional requirements for subsequent permit renewals, which can be done by mail every five years.

I shoot my revolvers at 7 yards at the indoor range and 10 yards at the outdoor range.

[GFK]

Hey CT, Is a permit required to purchase a firearm (handgun, rifle or shotgun) or ammo, even if a person has no intention of carry?

[North Country Gal]

Al, I would classify any of those 4" revolvers as excellent trail carry revolvers, perfect for self-defense against nasty critters and the occasional longer shot past 25 yards or so. That barrel length gets you good velocity with magnum cartridges, but is still fast and handy to get into action. The 4" barrel length does well for me at 25 yards, but hitting 4" targets consistently at 25 yards takes practice for me, too (and it ain't getting an easier with old age), but if any revolvers can handle that kind work, it's those S&W of yours.

For hunting, back in the day, I always considered a 5 1/2" or 6" barrel to be a minimum, not just for ballistics, but also sight radius and accurate shooting. These days, it's where I like to be for barrel length when shooting beyond 25 yards.

[CT_Shooter]

Hey CT, Is a permit required to purchase a firearm (handgun, rifle or shotgun) or ammo, even if a person has no intention of carry?

Sort of. A pistol permit holder can carry a concealed gun and buy firearms and ammo. But, there is a "certificate" that permits holders to just buy long guns, ammunition, and magazines; and another that just allows holders to buy magazines and ammunition.
https://portal.ct.gov/despp/division-of ... uage=en_US

[GFK]

Hey CT, Is a permit required to purchase a firearm (handgun, rifle or shotgun) or ammo, even if a person has no intention of carry?

Sort of. A pistol permit holder can carry a concealed gun and buy firearms and ammo. But, there is a "certificate" that permits holders to just buy long guns, ammunition, and magazines; and another that just allows holders to buy magazines and ammunition.
https://portal.ct.gov/despp/division-of ... uage=en_US

Thanks CT! I believed that I have asked that question before? It just seems like a person have to pay and require permission of a government to exercise his 2nd Amendment right. Federal background checks are a norm. But, I don't recall paying for one. Yet, I suspect this is not the first time that has been mentioned.

[5shot]

I usually shoot carry guns at 25 yards and hunting handguns at 50 yards. We have a 7 yd 10 yd and 15 yard range in our walled "tunnel" and I occasionally go down there to practice speed drills.

[rickhem]

When shooting for score or group size, I've always done a little better with a semi-auto, but not enough for me to prefer them over a good revolver. I still consider myself to be a revolver shooter when it comes to conventional handguns. That's always been my home base.

When I go to the range to sight in a revolver (or check it for POI if it's a fixed sight revolver), I always start at 16 yards (50 ft). After that, it depends on the revolver size and intended use.

If it's a snubbie or an up close pocket style revolver, I'll keep shooting at that distance or mix in some closer work. If it shows promise, I may even try it at 25 yards, just to see what it can do.

For a full size revolver with at least a 4" barrel, I go to 25 yards, next. This is a distance where I shoot all my medium and large frame revolvers for initial accuracy testing. This is the distance where I rate full size revolvers for accuracy via group size. This is also a practical shooting distance for a woods carry revolver and even a hunting revolver when hunting in heavy cover.

For the long barreled revolvers, 6" or more, I move to 50 yards, next, sometimes even 100 yards if it's a dedicated hunting or silhouette revolver. Yeah, 50 yards or 100 yards with a revolver is pretty nutty by today's standards, but back when I was using a revolver for deer hunting, 50 yards with a revolver was very typical and 100 yards was a long shot, but still doable with the right revolver and a lot of practice. Ranges are even longer in handgun silhouette.

You can tell a lot about a revolver's accuracy potential with these longer distances and many big bore revolvers have a long history of being shot at these distances. This is NOT stunt shooting, by the way. There have been models of revolvers made and designed to be shot at these distances and they are still being made. This kind of shooting just gets overlooked with today's heavy emphasis on self-defense shooting.

Curious NCG. Would you classify a 629, 610, and a 686 all in 4 inch barrels as hunting revolvers or self defense? You can throw the Ruger line up in the mix also .

Shooting any of these beyond 25 yards takes some serious practice and I know from my experience with the 610 hitting 4 inch clays on a bank at that distance is a challenge. Maybe I put to much pressure on myself to be able to consistently hit that 4 inch target at that distance

This sparks a thought for me. Since my handgun shooting was formed through shooting Bullseye, that has become my point of reference, and how I think about a handgun's usage and capability. I started before the electronic dot sights were popular, so I got comfortable with irons, but I'll admit that those were not the typical iron sights, they were much larger and more sharply defined. A carbide smoker or a can of sight black was also fairly common. This was also the case shooting Service Rifle. That leads me to my thought, and that is how my perspective is really not appropriate for a self defense application. The targets I'm familiar with are all fairly standard in size, and the aiming black is almost identical in appearance on my front sight at almost any of the normal bullseye distances. Again, same with Service Rifle. But the target also has a large surrounding area of contrasting color, usually a buff, or off-white, that helps with getting a good sight alignment. This really doesn't work with a self defense pistol as well, since that background is never the same, or even predictable. I have my handguns sighted for a sub-six hold, or a "line of white" under the bull, and over my front sight. I find that very easy to reproduce. I'm learning that for for me, with small, short barrel carry guns, that's not working. Front sights with the dot insert, or something with three dot sights, seem to work better when that front sight is superimposed on the target. That is especially true at closer distances, which are where a self defense handgun does most of it's work.
Just more for me to learn I guess.

[BrokenolMarine]

Someone above mentioned IDPA matches as a form of training and I would suggest at least giving it a try. The good groups are very welcoming to new shooters, and go in with the mindset that you won't excel "at first" and you might find you really enjoy the experience. In most leagues, you will find that it's not all about the competition, there is a comraderee that makes you look forward to the matches. When I first started in PPC, I found that the people I shot with were very helpful, always willing to offer advice, loan a piece of gear or share techniques. It was the same when I started shooting the GSSF Glock Matches. Both were gatherings of like minded shooters, and each match was a social event as well as a competition. YES, we tried to win, but in most cases, GOOD sportsmanship prevailed.

However, I was shooting to improve my skillset as I carried a firearm every day for work and as a Department Firearms Instructor I felt I needed to be the best I could at that skillset. I shot matches three times a month at three locations around the state and praticed a lot on my home range. As an Instructor, I often attended In Service Training to improve my techniques or keep my certifications / credibility current. In one such session we all fired the FATS firearms training system. At the time it was cutting edge. You stood in a room with a surround screen and the simulator projected the scenario around you. The operator could modify the course of the scenario based on your actions "IN" the scenario. Make wise decisions and you could move thru the scenario without any need to draw and / or fire. Miss a cue and you were involved in a shooting situation. If you drew and fired the "FATS" duplicate of your duty firearm, they could play back the exact location of your shots in order.

The instructor said I did very well in the simulator and played back one incident, a funeral escort of a prisoner. The scenario was designed for the Department of Corrections and US Marshalls. During the funeral service in the church, the prisoner's family attempts to help him escape and you have to shoot. My shots on the moving targets resulted in 80% hits on the Bad Guys and 0 hits on the innocents. "You shoot competition don't you?" the examiner said?"

"Mostly PPC, but a lot of it."

"We can tell, it's the stress that gets most shooters here. Competition induces stress as well, and helps you learn to function under stress."

It's not the same thing as a real shooting scenario, he went on to explain, but any advantage that will help, helps. Paintball is another great way to help you survive in real life situations. (I haven't gone there... but I know officers in leagues.)

[220]

Im another from predominantly target background so most shooting at 25 or more.
Certainly gets exponentially harder as distance increases, those shots that at 7 or 10 yards might be a 9 on the target often dont even hit paper at 50.
If I want to feel good about my shooting I will do it at shorter ranges, if I want to practice to improve then it will be longer range every time.

[North Country Gal]

Since my background is hunting and target work like some others, here, the idea of shooting a revolver, fast, up close, for self-defense purposes had been quite a learning curve for me and to complicate that, the kind of self-defense shooting I'm more likely to encounter is with a bear or other predator, since I do spend so much time in our north woods.

I sometimes wonder if I might be better prepared carrying one of our 357 lever guns than a 357 revolver or even our 44 lever gun. Have both. I might be more accurate with the lever gun under a stress situation, plus shooting a 357 or 44 in a lever gun ups the power, significantly.

[Mags]

I think with an up close encounter with a rapidly charging bear or cat I'd rather have a pistol. Not sure I could get the muzzle of rifle swung up in time.

[BrokenolMarine]

I always remember what an old friend told me.

Have a handgun on your person, and have a rifle or shotgun at hand. In many situations, when you need it the most, that long gun, indeed your better choice, will be just out of reach. You left it leaning against the tree when you went to get wood for the campfire. It's still in the rack in the cruiser, it wasn't that kind of call. It's still slung over your shoulder with your pack as the threat leaps from the brush.

If the long gun is in your hand, better choice. If not, you can normally access a handgun on your person a lot faster.