1994 444 Marlin

[bandit1250]

After selling a Leupold 6-18 scope to my neighbor I had some money in my pocket that I though it "needed" spent at a LGS. I hit the used rack first like always and got clear to the end with nothing exciting then there was a Marlin at the last slot. Picked it up thinking maybe 45/70 but was a 444. 444 works better for me as I can load cheaper 44 cal. jacketed bullets for practice loads and occasional terrorizing the ground hogs along the fence rows in the area. This gun is a nice example with only slight bluing wear on the left edge of the muzzle from a case or a pickup floorboard but no other marks on wood or metal and looks to be very little fired. It was priced at $419 and I am weak when it comes to a nice Marlin priced well so it came home with me. I will peep sight this one as I have a scoped 2001 444. Here they are together. Pretty nice pair.

[Deadwood Dutch]

Congratulations, sounds like a good price for a great rifle.

[tx gunrunner]

I love your Marlin big bore rifles .. The 444 is a great caliber , but remember MOST 444 rifles DON"T like heavy bullets because of barrel twist is set up for pistol bullet where the 45-70 twist like heavier bullets . If it come down to cheap shooting I prefer cast bullets in a pistol caliber lever gun and keep it below 1000 fps and the gun should NEVER lead in a 1000 plus rounds shot . Remember cast and jacket bullet should NEVER be shot in same gun . Lead sticks to jacket fouling and causing a gun to lead up fast and accuratcy drop when it leads up . My health keeps me from hunting anymore so the pistol calibers lever gun are best for me .

[Vaquero]

Good looking pair. Congrats
I love my '97 444, at that price I would have a pair also.
Got a 320gr lead load that works great at 100 yds easily.
Never had anything walk away after being hit by one.
I'd like to find an outfitter one day.

RP

[JCN]

Looks like a great find. Enjoy.

P.S. it's funny to read 'so it came home with me' because when I find something I like here in CA it comes home with me 10 days later!

[bandit1250]

I love your Marlin big bore rifles .. The 444 is a great caliber , but remember MOST 444 rifles DON"T like heavy bullets because of barrel twist is set up for pistol bullet where the 45-70 twist like heavier bullets . If it come down to cheap shooting I prefer cast bullets in a pistol caliber lever gun and keep it below 1000 fps and the gun should NEVER lead in a 1000 plus rounds shot . Remember cast and jacket bullet should NEVER be shot in same gun . Lead sticks to jacket fouling and causing a gun to lead up fast and accuratcy drop when it leads up . My health keeps me from hunting anymore so the pistol calibers lever gun are best for me .

The twist rate was changed to 1:20" from 1:38 when Marlin went from Micro-groove back to Ballard type 6 groove rifling. Some of the guys over on Marlin owners are shooting their own bullets up around 400-420grs. A guy called Flat Top? has modified the feeding mechanism to feed very long heavy hard cast bullets that he has loaded to get some amazing energy and penetration out of the 444. If I remember right he is well in to the 4000 ft/lbs. range with the heavy weights. I believe he has named his 444 SG meaning Safari Grade. He has some very interesting reading over there on Marlin Owners.

[JEBar]

thanks for bringing up the 444 .... it is a caliber that I'd heard of but knew next to nothing or even less about .... easy reading ====> http://military.wikia.com/wiki/.444_Marlin <==== I found its connection to the 45-70 to be interesting

[tx gunrunner]

Bandit ........... I knew Marlin changed the twist . Putting the ballard rifling is a big plus in my book since I'm a cast bullet shooter . The 444 brass was hard to find there for awhile and bullet selection and choices was narrow . In my old age I no longer like thumper guns . A 444 or 45-70 in a lever gun is a thumper Below is as thumpest [ not a word ] as I get is 44-40 HV is 200 gr / 1800 fps it is not for Colt pistols or Winc 73 lever guns . Ruger pistol and Winc 92 is ok .

[JEBar]

I prefer cast bullets in a pistol caliber lever gun and keep it below 1000 fps and the gun should NEVER lead in a 1000 plus rounds shot . Remember cast and jacket bullet should NEVER be shot in same gun . Lead sticks to jacket fouling and causing a gun to lead up fast and accuratcy drop when it leads up

I'm new to the world of using lead bullets so there is much I freely admit I don't understand .... I've seen a range speeds given as being OK to fire lead bullets without causing a barrel to develop a lead problem .... for lead bullets in 45-70, our Lyman 49th Edition all of the speeds given for the range of lead bullets they cover fall just over/just under 1,600 fps .... HMS quotes a Muzzle Velocity of 1,781 fps for their 430 gr Bear Loads and a Muzzle Velocity of 1200 fps for their 405 gr Cowboy Action Loads .... I've fired hundreds of them and haven't had any detectable lead buildup .... the first few rounds I fired through ours were the jacked Lever Revolutions (only 45-70 shells I could find at that time) and didn't care for them .... as noted, I've always used jacketed bullets (mostly Nosler) and admit to having a problem getting my head wrapped around the concept of not firing both through the same rifle

[tx gunrunner]

I've done it with all with cast bullet . Without gas check you need to shoot your cast bullets below 1400 fps so it don't your lead barrel . I cast all my target bullets [ 25 to 1 ] . I make most of my bullet mold here one below . Below is my target rifle I built to shoot lead only . The target below is the best target I shot in a match and stood for over 20 yrs and there is a perfect target in the pic of rifle I shot .

[tx gunrunner]

My cowboy loads for SASS/CAS the pistol is around 750 fps and rifle are around 1000 fps .

[JEBar]

My cowboy loads for SASS/CAS the pistol is around 750 fps and rifle are around 1000 fps .

for shooting a lead 405 gr lead bullet out of a Henry 45-70 for punching paper at ranges out to 100 yards what muzzle velocity would be a good starting point in working up a load

[tx gunrunner]

I sold this a few years ago . I built this 40-60 / 40-70 Maynard which was a used in the Civil War as a sniper cartridge and 1st long range cartridge in the civil war . The 1st one were made by soldering a tube to a flat washer [ see pic ]. I used IMR4227 and shot the 400 gr bullet [ posted in earlier pics ] at 1400 fps to match BP loads . It would shoot 5 rds at 1.75" at 200 yds off cross sticks . The steel targets were all different sizes and all target are placed at unknown yardage over 200 yds . Fun shoot , but it was hard to get people to come out and shoot it . So it died after only 8 matches .

[JEBar]

I used IMR4227 and shot the 400 gr bullet [ posted in earlier pics ] at 1400 fps to match BP loads .

info appreciated .... it gives me a place to start

[tx gunrunner]

All my books are old and don't have the new 20 to 1 twist . I would keep all my loads below 1400 fps .... 1200 fps should give you good accuracy at 100 yds . 13.0 of Unique / 400 gr will be a fun load and no kick or 21.0 of 4227 / 400 gr should be a good start . Both load I would use large pistol primes . I like them on mild cast bullets help to keep leading down and will show pressure signs fast . They will seat a little deeper then large rifle primer and never use mag primers with cast bullets . Both powders will handle reduced loads well .

This a good to buy

[JEBar]

All my books are old and don't have the new 20 to 1 twist . I would keep all my loads below 1400 fps .... 1200 fps should give you good accuracy at 100 yds . 13.0 of Unique / 400 gr will be a fun load and no kick or 21.0 of 4227 / 400 gr should be a good start . Both load I would use large pistol primes . I like them on mild cast bullets help to keep leading down and will show pressure signs fast . They will seat a little deeper then large rifle primer and never use mag primers with cast bullets . Both powders will handle reduced loads well .

This a good to buy

the recommendation for 1200 to 1400 fps is appreciated .... if 1200 will deliver decent accuracy out to 100 yards, that would meet 99% of my needs .... I'm not interested in a rainbow trajectory but it doesn't have to be perfectly flat as well .... I'd of never considered using large pistol primers, thanks for that suggestion .... have plenty of Unique on hand so will start with 13 gr and will be loading 405 Grain Laser Cast ===> http://www.cabelas.com/product/oregon-t ... le+bullets <=== to start with .... may well drop back to their 250 gr bullets after we go through the 405's we have on hand

[tx gunrunner]

If you have 1 in 38" twist the 250 gr should work . If you have a 1 in 20 twist your wasting your money on 250 gr the odds are against you . If you want a flat trajectory you picked the wrong gun and caliber . You need to switch to a 30-30 in a lever gun . Remember everything falls at the same rate per second [ 32.2 fps ] . If you shoot 2 guns 3 ft off the ground and you shoot 1 at 1000 fps and the other one at 3000 fps they both hit the ground at the same exact time . Just 1 will be 2000 ft farther . I hope this makes sense

[JEBar]

If you have 1 in 38" twist the 250 gr should work . If you have a 1 in 20 twist your wasting your money on 250 gr the odds are against you . If you want a flat trajectory you picked the wrong gun and caliber . You need to switch to a 30-30 in a lever gun . Remember everything falls at the same rate per second [ 32.2 fps ] . If you shoot 2 guns 3 ft off the ground and you shoot 1 at 1000 fps and the other one at 3000 fps they both hit the ground at the same exact time . Just 1 will be 2000 ft farther . I hope this makes sense

no clue as to the twist .... I looked on Henry's website and didn't see it mentioned .... I may have conveyed the wrong message about what I want in the trajectory .... I have no problem with a trajectory that is zeroed at 100 yards a couple of inches (more or less) high at 50 yards .... I certainly need to spend some more time on the range but so far HSM Cowboy Action loads seem to do fine

[tx gunrunner]

JEBar .......... I'm on 6 other forum and I just notice you are not the author of this post . All the information I gave you was for a 1994 Marlin in 444 . Please tell me the rifle and caliber you have . I look back it looks like you have a 45-70 Henry which has a 1 in 20 twist . 405 gr bullet should be best for that twist . I wouldn't load anything below 300 gr for that twist and it with be hard to keep the bullet stabilized at 100 yds . Those load should work for you .,

[JEBar]

JEBar .......... I'm on 6 other forum and I just notice you are not the author of this post . All the information I gave you was for a 1994 Marlin in 444 . Please tell me the rifle and caliber you have . I look back it looks like you have a 45-70 Henry which has a 1 in 20 twist . 405 gr bullet should be best for that twist . I wouldn't load anything below 300 gr for that twist and it with be hard to keep the bullet stabilized at 100 yds .

yes, I do have a Henry 45-70 rifle, info appreciated .... good to hear the 405 gr should do well, I have several boxes of them on hand ...