Henry Rifle Forums

I told my husband that he should buy a BP rifle for his upcoming retirement.

What does a 32 or 36 Caliber black powder rifle feel like 'recoil wise' compared to shooting a 30-30 (150 or a 170 grain load.) or a 357 Magnum (158 grain, etc.) or 45 Long Colt (250 grain lead flat nose.) rifle?

Is there a good BP board or link that shows this comparison so I can study this or can you guys/gals help me here?

He shoots his reloaded loads and a TINY bit of factory ammo in his various rifles but he has a bit of arthritis. (Nothing like me!) We are not spring chickens and I am thinking about something that will be fun for him to shoot and easy on his body as he ages too. He is pretty strong for his age and tall.

Right now, he shoots a 45-70 in two favorite loads, a 30-06, a 30-30 and a .223 rifle. He shoots some 22lr but he shoots CF rifles and 2 CF pistols (45acp and 9mm) the most.

Thank you.

Cate

I can't call him at work and ask him this question now.

So I came online to see what you BP people have to share.

Thanks again!

Cate

Catherine, you are mixing up the bullet weight in smokeless with the charge weight of BP. The numbers that you stated are the weights of the bullet. With modern smokeless powder, we select different weight bullets. For example, I typically use 180 grain bullets in my .44 cal BB, while Squatch prefers 240 grain in his BB.

When we discuss BP we are usually talking about the amount of BP behind the bullet. (This is not a consideration with factory load smokeless cartridges where we just look at the velocities and leave the amount and choice of powder to the manufacturer.) There is a range of powder loads that work for round balls and mini balls of each caliber. Typically, when one gets a new BP rifle, one starts at the bottom of the range and then works there way up towards the top of the range until one finds a load that works best in the rifle. The article might help. http://hunting.about.com/od/blackpowder ... eloads.htm

Along with the rifle, your husband will need a flask, powder measure, a box of balls (and patches if round balls), powder and primers. With BP you need either real BP (e.g., Goex) or a BP substitute (e.g., Pyrodex, Triple7) in a rifle grain (FF or RS). Using smokeless powder in a PB firearm is DANGEROUS! As for the primers, the description of the rifle should tell you what it uses. Older style BP rifles typically use percussion caps (e.g., #10 or #11) and in-line BP rifles typically use 209 shotgun primers. (I'd stay away from flintlocks as a first BP rifle.)

If your husband likes to hunt, I'd recommend a modern .50 cal in-line. It is very popular with deer hunters during the muzzle loader season. Most can handle scopes (many come with scopes pre-mounted.) In-line muzzleloaders are easy to clean. And, your husband should be able to find a load that doesn't bother him. I'd also recommend stainless, which is more resistant to the sulfur in the BP. Finally, try to match the stock to your husband's preference; wood or synthetic.

Catherine wrote:What does a 32 or 36 Caliber black powder rifle feel like 'recoil wise' compared to shooting a 30-30 (150 or a 170 grain load.) or a 357 Magnum (158 grain, etc.) or 45 Long Colt (250 grain lead flat nose.) rifle?

Thank you.

Cate

the best analogy I can think of between the felt recoil between black powder and smokeless powder is, black powder is more of a push while smokeless powder is generally more of a punch .... the strength of the push / punch with both depends on several factors .... a few are weight of bullet, weight of powder charge, weight of rifle, recoil pad or solid butt plate

I have an inexpensive 50 caliber percussion that kicks like a mule. Of course, it is a very light rifle with a very light plastic stock. I have had very little experience with this rifle. It was given to me well used and abused.

From my little bit of experience, I would recommend getting an inline. The biggest issue I have is ignition. I understand that the inline rifles pretty much go bang every time. Cleaning is far easier as well. Recoil can be managed with by playing with bullet weight and powder load. A good recoil pad helps a lot as well. The other issue is that your husband will likely shoot fewer rounds each session with BP, compared to a modern cartridge weapons. The smaller caliber BP weapons should give lower recoil, as they will have a lighter bullet overall. The weight of the rifle will also influence felt recoil. The heavier the rifle the less the felt recoil.

clovishound wrote:The biggest issue I have is ignition. I understand that the inline rifles pretty much go bang every time.

The in-line muzzleloaders typically use 209 shotgun primers which are a lot more powerful than the percussion caps used in the side locks. Also, the flash from the primers in the in-lines goes straight to the powder, while that from the caps used by the sidelocks has to make a turn. Finally, the in-lines are easier to clean. With the sidelock, sometimes the cleaning blocks the passage taken by the flash. I have found that it is best to remove the screw covering the passage and clean it out. Some also start a secession by setting off a cap without a charge in the barrel to clean out the passage.

clovishound wrote:I have an inexpensive 50 caliber percussion that kicks like a mule.

As for the recoil, what bullets and charge are you using? I use a patched .490" round ball (178 grain) in my Traditions Mountaineer (an inexpensive Hawkins knockoff) with 70 grains of Triple7 by volume and I can hardly feel it. It kicks about as much as a .44 special out of my BB; i.e., not much at all. If you are using a heavy projectile such as a (300+ grain) minie ball and (100+ grain) charge, try switching to a lighter load. You will enjoy your rifle a lot more. Also, what powder are you using? You want to use a rifle/shotgun powder designated by FF or RS, not a pistol powder designated by FFF or P.

For hunting, inlines are probably the way to go. For shooting enjoyment? I think I'd prefer a reproduction model of an old percussion rifle. Something along the lines of a Lyman Great Plains rifle. Uses caps, and can shoot patched balls, or minie balls.

Folks, thank you for your answers.

He has been busy at work and taking me back and forth to the doctor.

He has a week off so we shall see what trips his trigger and if he would like a classic reproduction BP rifle.

Thanks again!

Cate

I got my Buck the 1st day with my 50 cal flint gun shooting a patched round ball at 75 yds he dropped like a rock . All inline and scoped BP guns should only be allow in reg rifle season and leave ML season to real Muzzle loader . The same thing with scope cross bow should not be allow in archery season . I got my 1st ever Buck with a 60 lbs Bear recurve bow and I shot wooden arrows too and NO SCOPE .

That is a gorgeous rifle.

Taking a buck with a flintlock is an accomplishment, given the delay and the reliability issues.